FSX Making a landable mountain using ADE for FSX

[Tomt478]

So, what combination do I load these BGLs to see the intended display ?

There are (2) BGLs in the \Scenery sub-folder out of the ZIP.

Do I also need to locally compile the ADE project and add all those BGLs to the above cited \Scenery sub-folder ?

Or do I keep the ADE locally compiled BGLs separate from the (2) BGLs in the \Scenery sub-folder out of the ZIP ?

< Hah ...'gotcha', more than (1) question for you, in one of my own posts. >

GaryGB

Everything is in its needed place, it's all compiled and all, the only thing you will need to do is either add the 'work" directory at the top of your FSX scenery library, or just add it to your BGL scenery folder, everything should just load up from there. Those other file in the 'work' root directory are my base files that I work with, they have no bearing on the actual loading of the project in FSX. The SBP and SBX files, those are my Sbuilder project files. You may have to compile the ADE project ,now you won't get any of the custom objects show up because all those MDL files are located in another folder on my machine. Everything else should show up though. Now, is it possible to make custom 3D PR_LC? I'm looking through the tutorial but don't see any info on doing that, unless I just haven't found it yet, that's one big set of documents.

 

[GaryGB]

I was planning on the TI version, it's a much better card. I most likely won't upgrade the sim for a while though. I have to replace a couple of my memory sticks, I have one that's failing and one that already did. I'm running 12GB right now, but soon will be down to 8GB once the other stick fails. Not too mention I have a bad USB port and have to replace my MB as well (for the third time mind you) If it wasn't so much trouble, I'd just shelf this machine and get a whole new one, but I don't have install programs or discs for a lot of my programs and since I upgraded from win10 to 11, I would have to purchase win 11pro because most new machines come with win11 home. It may be next year before I upgrade the sim.

Your current mobo based on info you previously posted, retails for $50 on Amazon.

Depending on what the case configuration is, you may be able to replace that mobo with a newer 3rd party part (I use only ASUS mobos).

BTW: Why would you need Win-11 Pro versus Home ?

GaryGB

 

[Tomt478]

Pro has a few extra do-dads that I use in other applications, insignificant to esigning, but needed in other aplications where calculation computing is needed. I do a little video producing on the side and Home didn't cut the mustard doing it, I had to upgrade to Pro to do some of the more complex things my editing software required. For the most part anyone who only does design work, don't need Pro, but video editing and production is a completely different ball-game. In fact my editing software won't even install on Home Edition, it REQURIES Pro to even install, that one I do at least have the install files for, it's a $500 piece of software, I keep those files in a very safe place on a SSD, I'd hate to loose a set of $500 files because a HD failed. that would truly S***. Not even sure if I can still purchase that program, it's about 10 yrs old now. Anyway, I am looking at an ASUS compatible board. My biggest problem is my case design. Also, changing to another MB means changing BIOS chipsets and would require a NEW install of Win11 which since I upgraded from 10 I don't have an actual install disc. So I'm trying to locate a 3rd party that supplies compatible DELL MBs so I don't have to do any OS install. If I use a DELL or compatible MOBO, then Win11 will adjust itself and not require a new install.

 

[GaryGB]

Everything is in its needed place, it's all compiled and all, the only thing you will need to do is either add the 'work" directory at the top of your FSX scenery library, or just add it to your BGL scenery folder, everything should just load up from there.

Those other files in the 'work' root directory are my base files that I work with, they have no bearing on the actual loading of the project in FSX. The SBP and SBX files, those are my Sbuilder project files.

You may have to compile the ADE project, now you won't get any of the custom objects show up because all those MDL files are located in another folder on my machine. Everything else should show up though.

MDL files for non-user-navigable aircraft or ground vehicles (scenery) must be compiled to BGLs in order to be detected and loaded by FSX.

Mapped textures in a local paired sub-folder under a top folder are required for display of the compiled scenery objects

And, as you know, such objects must be 'placed' either via Geo-locked BGLs, or via separate "placement" BGLs.

Now, is it possible to make custom 3D PR_LC?

I'm looking through the tutorial but don't see any info on doing that, unless I just haven't found it yet, that's one big set of documents.

You mean 3D models mapped with PR imagery ?

If so, those are G-Polys in full 3D rather than a more commonly seen- but not required- format of flat / level 3D that looks like a 2D object.

Because they are not true 'terrain', they do not have the option of autogen, seasonal textures (unless SimObjects), Hydro attributes etc.

Technically, 3D G-Polys can be made in FS-8 through MSFS model formats; very few FS Developers attempt to do that, however.

It is best to keep 3D models as scenery objects, and Terrain objects separate for purposes of full terrain attribute display.


Where / how were you thinking that you might want to use such objects ?

GaryGB

 

[Tomt478]

I was just wondering, I have a couple of images that contain some 'sci-fi' like structures that I would like to add as scenery backgrounds in some of the areas, but I guess that's a bit more complicated. Maybe I can find some actual images of 'alien" structures, cut them out with Photoshop, then create some 3D models of them and place them on top of my PR Scenery, right now those newly created areas are completely baren minus a few hills and mountains which look nice, but would be better with a few rocks, or statues, or some other alien-like objects. I know how to create models, no problem. I'll just stick with transforming the land with PR Scenery to give the land that alien-texture look, then worry about adding other things. I've pretty much got making PR scenery down now, still having some issues trying to "shape' or locate the PR scenery map where I want it. Also can't get the Land Class to work in Sbuilder. I did as the Tutorial said, but the LC never shows up for whatever reason. The same goes for Water Class. I can do it with Polys, but that is really tedious work getting the alt, the coordinates, and all that other stuff needed for Vectored G-Polys. Just too much hassle. Right now I have to use Blendmasking to allow my LC to show, even that is difficult as I can't get my map to show as a background in ADE for some odd reason, I need to know what I am blending out and where. I only want to blend certain areas but without a guide to go by, that proves more of Trial-and-error.

 

[GaryGB]

I was just wondering, I have a couple of images that contain some 'sci-fi' like structures that I would like to add as scenery backgrounds in some of the areas, but I guess that's a bit more complicated. Maybe I can find some actual images of 'alien" structures, cut them out with Photoshop, then create some 3D models of them and place them on top of my PR Scenery, right now those newly created areas are completely barren minus a few hills and mountains which look nice, but would be better with a few rocks, or statues, or some other alien-like objects. I know how to create models, no problem. I'll just stick with transforming the land with PR Scenery to give the land that alien-texture look, then worry about adding other things.

Indeed, the FSX gridded elevation data based terrain mesh itself showed more detailed "undulations" than the MSFS contour-with-gradient-HeightMap terrain surface in the screenshot I showed previously above.

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...mountain-using-ade-for-fsx.459364/post-931742


But, honestly, the HDRI global illumination and use of PBR textured, highly detailed Rocks stole the scene in my MSFS screenshot.

Never underestimate the power of "clutter" in making a 3D Scene look more realistic.

https://hdri-skies.com/3d-scans/

I've pretty much got making PR scenery down now, still having some issues trying to "shape' or locate the PR scenery map where I want it.

IIUC, in the latter case, you refer to issues "Calibrating" non-tile-server imagery not downloaded via SBuilderX, but rather "Added" via:

SBuilderX Menu > File > Add Map > From Disk

Also can't get the Land Class to work in SBuilderX. I did as the Tutorial said, but the LC never shows up for whatever reason. The same goes for Water Class. I can do it with Polys, but that is really tedious work getting the alt, the coordinates, and all that other stuff needed for Vectored G-Polys. Just too much hassle.

That is why use of CVX vectors became the preferred workflow in FSX, compared to legacy methods.

Right now I have to use Blendmasking to allow my LC to show, even that is difficult as I can't get my map to show as a background in ADE for some odd reason, I need to know what I am blending out and where. I only want to blend certain areas but without a guide to go by, that proves more of Trial-and-error.

IIRC, ADE has a transparency feature for Background images ?

I would use SBuilderX with a copy of the original tileserver downloaded BMP exported to [SBXC315 install path]\Tiles\Work sub-folder.

Next, I would made it semi-transparent in ex: PhotoShop, then Calibrate it as a BMP using the original BMP Geo-referencing TXT info via:

SBuilderX Menu > File > Add Map > From Disk

Then in SBuilderX, it should appear superimposed on top of the original project tile set of BMPs for drawing CVX vector LC objects.


If making Masks, that may be done in PhotoShop with a semi-transparent BMP in a layer super-imposed on top of the original opaque BMP.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Pho...gQABiABBiiBJgDAJIHAzAuNaAH0BY&sclient=gws-wiz

GaryGB

 

[Tomt478]

That's actually how I am doing it. I'm creating a blendmask layer that is semi-transparent and overlaying it on top of the map bmp, but for some reason when it gets compiled, it looses all of the transparency. Now I know that in the tutorial he was using GIMP to do the masking, but it's pretty much the same as photoshop, same commands, same process, just named differently, now he shows merging all the layers into one then saving the map file, and I'm wondering if that is causing me to loose my transparency. Photoshop doesn't deal too well with separate layers for background and transparency being merged, it deals better leaving them as separate layers, they will be merged when the file is saved. I'm going to try it without merging the layers and see if that works any better. I'm fixing to add another scenery to another area anyway, that would be a good time to test my theory about the layers.

 

[GaryGB]

When editing in PhotoShop is completed, the BMP Alpha channel should not be merged with the 'top' visible image of the intended Blend Mask.

Instead, when editing in PhotoShop is completed, delete the Alpha channel in that BMP

Then convert the 'top' visible image of the intended Blend Mask into an 8-Bit gray scale TIF.

Functionally, that TIF will become an Alpha channel Blend Mask for the 'top' visible image of aerial imagery used in the custom PR LC BGL, which determines what parts of underlying scenery is allowed to show through to the top in FSX.

LF5's tutorial illustrates the changes in the SDK Resample INF file that must be made the accommodate the TIF file format to be used for the Masks.


FYI: Some additional important info in older threads pertinent to working with custom PR LC imagery source files is here:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...-scenery-achievable.440912/page-4#post-781748

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/night-texture-help.441091/

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/blend-mask-not-working.435956/

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/water-mask-blend-mask-gimp-2-i-still-dont-get-it.445375/

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/resample-exe-not-working.445075/

GaryGB

 

[Tomt478]

I'm not sure what you mean...so I am to convert the BMP (24bit) Blend Mask to a TIFF (8bit gray-scale)? Does that mean I have to change the file format in the INFO text file used to compile the image? I'm lost. I can make the blendmask work, but it completely removes the PR Scenery and only shows the LC. I don't want that, my problem with doing that is I would have to know 'exactly' where on the KWR1 airport to draw the mask layer. This is not possible because there is no way to overlay the KWR1 image over the 'map' image to precisely remove the PR scenery from the precise area I want to remove it. For example, say I only want to remove the PR scenery from around a building, I would need to know where 'exactly' that building is in order to draw the mask around it. that's fine when using real-world imagery as the map image, but since I can't overlay an image of the airport on top of the map image, I wouldn't know where the building is in order to draw around it.

Therefore, it would be easier to leave my LC in place, and be able to "blend" it in with the PR scenery without completely removing the PR scenery. That would completely defeat the purpose of having the PR scenery. According to that tutorial you are supposed to be able to use "grays" to draw the mask layer and that is supposed to allow the PR to show through the LC. It don't work, tried several different ways, nothing worked. So, how do I go about keeping the PR scenery which provides the landscape imagery, but allows the LC to show on top of that PR landscape? It would just be simpler and easier to add a blend mask to the entire PR scenery that wouldn't remove the PR completely.

 

[Tomt478]

What I can't understand is this..........in the tutorial for making PR scenery, it explains that you can add LC tiles and/or WC tiles on top of you PR Scenery, it looks pretty straightforward, I did 'exactly' as shown, but the LC tiles (LC_****.bgl) do not show up in FSX, so what the heck am I doing wrong? It would make things so much easier than fooling with trying to overlay LC over the PR which is proving somewhat impossible to do. I can be satisfied with just placing LC tiles in places where I want a LC to show. I just can't get LC tiles to show in FSX.

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Tom:

I'm on the road again; I'll reply later this evening (Tuesday).

GaryGB

 

[GaryGB]

I'm not sure what you mean ...so I am to convert the BMP (24bit) Blend Mask to a TIFF (8bit gray-scale)?

Yes.

See:

Make photo-real ground textures in FS X.html tutorial by LFT:

"To add blend masks or water masks to your custom ground, you can create them using the original image as a basis, and then save them with the same name, but using a suffix to indicate this. The files should be saved as TIF images, for example:

original image - L17X132735X132743Y90177Y90183.BMP

blend mask - L17X132735X132743Y90177Y90183_B.TIF
water mask - L17X132735X132743Y90177Y90183_W.TIF

Make sure that those files are in the SBuilderX\Tools\Work folder even if the original image is in another folder, and SBuilderX will automatically integrate the blend and/or water mask in the custom ground."

Does that mean I have to change the file format in the INF text file used to compile the image?

Yes.

See:

Make photo-real ground textures in FS X.html tutorial by LFT

multi-source inf file​

I'm lost. I can make the Blendmask work, but it completely removes the PR Scenery and only shows the LC. I don't want that, my problem with doing that is I would have to know 'exactly' where on the KWR1 airport to draw the mask layer. This is not possible because there is no way to overlay the KWR1 image over the 'map' image to precisely remove the PR scenery from the precise area I want to remove it.

For example, say I only want to remove the PR scenery from around a building, I would need to know where 'exactly' that building is in order to draw the mask around it. that's fine when using real-world imagery as the map image, but since I can't overlay an image of the airport on top of the map image, I wouldn't know where the building is in order to draw around it.

Therefore, it would be easier to leave my LC in place, and be able to "blend" it in with the PR scenery without completely removing the PR scenery. That would completely defeat the purpose of having the PR scenery. According to that tutorial you are supposed to be able to use "grays" to draw the mask layer and that is supposed to allow the PR to show through the LC. It doesn't work, tried several different ways, nothing worked.

So, how do I go about keeping the PR scenery which provides the landscape imagery, but allows the LC to show on top of that PR landscape?

It would just be simpler and easier to add a blend mask to the entire PR scenery that wouldn't remove the PR completely.

To use the layer transparency feature in PhotoShop, refer to this (apparently correct) A.I. Generated Tutorial in Google:

https://www.google.com/search?q=Pho...-AEBmAIAoAIAmAMAkgcAoAcA&sclient=gws-wiz-serp


FYI: If a Blend mask is made properly, it will "Blend" the PR Scenery to gradually show the underlying LC.

Place CVX vector LC or WC in a layer under custom PR LC (which must be above CVX vector layer in scenery library).


See: FSX - How to create photoreal scenery for FSX- Tiberius_K and Jim_Robinson_Page-1.htm

PART III - Watermasks and Blendmasks


NOTE: Gray scale in the *.TIF Blend Mask means:

* Steps of gray from pure Black (RGB-0,0,0) = fully Transparent) = PR has completely faded out to reveal underlying LC

...to:

* Pure White (Fully opaque) (RGB-256,256,256) = fully Opaque) = PR has does not fade out to reveal any underlying LC


Intermediate Gray scale Step ex: (RGB-128,128,128) = 50% Transparent) = PR partially fades out to reveal underlying LC

Values of (RGB-1,1,1) = "nearly" fully Transparent) -to- (RGB-254,254,254) = "nearly" fully Opaque) ...may also be used.


PS: A Land - Water Mask is either Black or White:

No Steps of gray:

* Pure Black (RGB-0,0,0) = fully Transparent) = PR has completely faded out to reveal underlying LC

"Hydro" attributes display

...to:

* Pure White (Fully opaque) (RGB-256,256,256) = fully Opaque) = PR has does not fade out to reveal any underlying LC


No "Hydro" attributes display


No intermediate Gray scale Step allows partial Transparency = PR does not partially fade out to reveal underlying LC

No "Hydro" attributes display


Blend Mask and/or Land-Water Mask must be specified by channel # or by *.TIF file name in the SDK Resample INF.

GaryGB

 

[Tomt478]

OK, let me see if I get this... I understand how to do transparent layers in PS(been using it for years), if I want the CVX LC to "blend in" with the PR, then I should set my mask color to 50% (gray) and in order to show all of the CVX LC under the PR, just cover the entire PR with the 'blend mask" layer, save the 'blendmask" layer as a 8bit B&W TIF image. Ok, got that, now I put all of my work in the "work" folder on my desktop, hasn't been a problem, I rename my files to make it easier to keep up with. Now once I have made all of my blendmasks and/or watermasks, I create my INFO file for compiling, go ahead and compile everything to get my BGL, ok, now of course copy that BGL to my work/scenery folder so FSX can find it. All of that works ok. Now what you are saying is I have to make FSX load my CVX LC first, then load the PR imagery second. As of right now, in my scenery library, I have my work/scenery folder at the top (#1) of the list, and my addon/scenery under that (#2), from what I understand, FSX loads everything from top to bottom, so does that mean I should put my wor/scenery as #2, and my addon/scenery as #1, so it loads up my CVX information created by ADE first, then loads my PR information from SBX second? Do I have that right?

 

[Tomt478]

Now if I have a small fountain that has a water poly in it, do I need to place a WaterMask directly on the fountain where the water is, or can I just "paint" the watermask around the fountain to reveal the water "in" the fountain? I haven't done watermasks yet, been working on the LC problem right now, but I will have to do watermasking eventually.

Oh and I've pretty much gotten creating the INF file down, not that hard really, it's a bit picky though, gotta have those filenames and extensions "just right" or resample won't compile the darn thing.

 

[Tomt478]

There's a step there not mentioned in the tutorial, I should create a blendmask TIF file for the original BMP map file with the same name in my SB15/Tools/Work folder as well? That wasn't mentioned, so I have never done that step.

 

[GaryGB]

OK, let me see if I get this... I understand how to do transparent layers in PS(been using it for years), if I want the CVX LC to "blend in" with the PR, then I should:

set my mask color to 50% (gray) and in order to show all of the CVX LC under the PR,

50% (gray) is only a random example of variable Gray scale step values one may use (actually, that value is rarely used).

Use Pure Black (0,0,0) in order to show all of the CVX LC under the PR.

But in some areas you may need / want to use more or less transparency if Blending; ex: fade shorelines to WC color

just cover the entire PR with the 'blend mask" layer

Yes and No; the images are from the same original, but the Blend Mask is going to be converted to 8-Bit Gray Cale TIF.

One fades imagery at the edges of custom PR so it Blends into the surrounding / underlying default / 3rd party LC

save the 'Blendmask" layer as a 8-bit B&W TIF image

OK, got that, now I put all of my work in the "work" folder on my desktop, hasn't been a problem, I rename my files to make it easier to keep up with.

Now once I have made all of my Blendmasks and/or Watermasks:

I create my INFO file for compiling, go ahead and compile everything to get my imagery BGL, ok, now of course copy that BGL to my work\Scenery folder so FSX can find it. All of that works ok.

Good.

Now what you are saying is I have to make FSX load my CVX LC first, then load the PR imagery second.

As of right now, in my scenery library:

I have my work\Scenery folder at the top (#1) of the list,

and my Add on Scenery\Scenery under that (#2)

NO !

Never move [FSX install path]Addon Scenery\Scenery layer from its position as default scenery Area @ Priority #186

Do not drop new project BGLs into [FSX install path]Addon Scenery\Scenery folder

Do not put Textures mapped to that scenery in- / placed by- BGLs in [FSX install path]Addon Scenery\Texture folder


Always create a new 'Work' Top Folder with a \Scenery sub-folder under it within Add on Scenery folder chain.

Then place your project 'Work' custom BGLs within that new nested \Scenery sub-folder.


Position your latest build of 'Work' products in a new Area layer at the top of Scenery Library


Are you still having issues with Windows File Explorer / File Manager with the reportedly 'botched' Win-11 update ?

From what I understand, FSX loads everything from top to bottom,

FSX loads everything from bottom to top (Default Area layers load first ...from the bottom of Scenery.Cfg

"Top" Display priority #1 is the top Area layer position in Scenery Library; (it loads / displays like a last "Cel" in a stack).

so does that mean I should put my work\Scenery as #2,

No, position your latest build of work products in a new Area layer at the top of Scenery Library

Disable / Delete your prior test build(s) of work products in existing Area layers 'near' the top of Scenery Library

and my Add on Scenery\Scenery as #1, so it loads up my CVX information created by ADE first, then loads my PR information from SBX second?

Do I have that right?

Never move [FSX install path]\Addon Scenery\ layer from its position as default scenery Area @ Priority #186


If you have a (rare) developer's add-on within an Area layer positioned 'among' FSX default layers, then do this:

Position [FSX install path]\Addon Scenery layer to FS default position immediately above Edwards_AFB Area layer


Do not position your own latest (or your own older) build of work products 'among' FSX default layers.


Position your own latest build of work products in a new Area layer at the top of Scenery Library (@ Priority #1).

GaryGB

 

[GaryGB]

Now if I have a small fountain that has a water poly in it, do I need to place a WaterMask directly on the fountain where the water is, or can I just "paint" the Watermask around the fountain to reveal the water "in" the fountain?

I haven't done Watermasks yet, been working on the LC problem right now, but I will have to do Watermasking eventually.

Oh and I've pretty much gotten creating the INF file down, not that hard really, it's a bit picky though, gotta have those filenames and extensions "just right" or resample won't compile the darn thing.

Where you want WC color and Hydro_ attributes to be displayed in a custom PR LC texture, you must use a Watermask.

There's a step there not mentioned in the tutorial, I should create a Blendmask TIF file for the original BMP map file with the same name in my SB15\Tools\Work folder as well?

That wasn't mentioned, so I have never done that step.

See: FSX - How to create photoreal scenery for FSX- Tiberius_K and Jim_Robinson_Page-1.htm

PART III - Watermasks and Blendmasks


IMHO, that lengthy tutorial is the better workflow in the beginning ...to avoid confusion.


Technically SBuilderX has a built-in mechanism which can use suffixes _B and _W as well as the old FS default _LM.

There is also a "Photo##" prefix sequence required for BMPs when that mechanism is used with Add Map > From Disk.


There are numerous quoted / interpretive tutorials here on that / other topics I adapted from FSDEV / AVSIM / PTSIM.

Those are subjects for a later time, IMHO, after the basic SBuilderX custom imagery PR LC process is mastered.

GaryGB

 

[Tomt478]

Ok, I will move everything to its default position, and yes, Win11 still has that file problem, they haven't released a fix for it yet, I expect once they get enough complaints, they will eventually fix it, for now, I just live with it. You know, come to think of it, for some reason my addon/scenery has always been at the #2 position ever since I installed FSX, There's always been something screwy with FSX since upgrading to win11. Never had any problems with it in win7 or win10. I noticed it crashing a lot lately after I've restarted it a few times during testing. Never have figured that one out. Anoying, but again, I just live with it.

 

[Tomt478]

Yeah, I've read through most of that big thing, but I never saw any mention of converting to TIFs or any details on transparency or anything about making a copy of my files in the tools/work folder. I probably would have eventually gotten to that point of doing that anyway after trying everything else to make it work. As far as the win11 file problem, I just make sure to delete my files before updating them since windows don't actually replace updated files anymore, Pain in the butt, but oh well, gotta do what I gotta do.

 

[Tomt478]

I just noticed something, my scenery is numbered differently, mine starts at 1 and edwards afb is number 3 in my list.