Problem with AI at my airport

[papeg]

I'm having a problem with AI Aircraft disappearing at my airport. I created an AI flight plan for FSX using TTOOLS and have edited the airport (PHKO and HI13, the flight is from these airports to PHTO and back. T/O at 1800, return T/O 2100, and repeat every 12 hours) using ADE to add parking space for the AI (I'm using a AI DC3). I made sure I had plenty of parking, made sure all of the parking spaces are connected to the taxiways, that the taxiways are connected to the runway paths and that the hold short points are in place and facing the correct direction. When I run FSX the AI are at the parking spaces and ready to go, when it becomes time for them to leave the just disappear (using TrafficToolBox, I noticed that they disappear just as they are trying to push back. I used the same AI at a different AP (PHTO to HI32, I had to add parking at HI32) the the flight plan worked fine, it seems the problem is with this AP.
On their return trip to the airport the aircraft will take off but disappear after they get about 10nm from the airport.

I removed my edited airport (PHTO) and reverted it back to the default airport and the same thing happened. Is there known problems with some of the default airport and do any of you have a suggestion on how to solve this problem.

Also, does fuel services need to be added to airport before AI will Takeoff from them?

Thanks is advance, Greg.

 

[bobbyjack]

Papeg

What has gotten me a few times is forgetting to make sure the runway taxiway is indeed set as Runway. That does not show up in the fault finder. You do not need fuel services for planes to take off.

Bob

 

[papeg]

Thanks for the reply Bob. I've check, and double checked to make sure the Runway path is really a runway path and that all of the taxiways and parking spaces are connected. Still no luck. Could someone take a look at this airport to see if I've missed something? Thanks

Greg

 

[meshman]

withdrawn.

 

[glottis]

papeg

have tested your file and it appears fine,
looks ok in ADE and when i tested it in FSX the four gates
that had aircraft all pushed back ok then continued to rwy 35 and took off.............
the only thing i can now think of is perhaps there is a problem with the flight plans....
fuel services are not necessary at an airport for AI traffic to operate or even for user aircraft.

 

[bobbyjack]

Things look OK. I think for testing I would use a default plane, and parking radius and wingspan that I know match. Say maybe, The default baron and some small GA ramps. Then watch your planes land and take off. Doesn't hurt to use FSX flightplans (though not manditory).

Bob

 

[jvile]

snip-----
Doesn't hurt to use FSX flightplans (though not manditory).

Bob

Bob

Is that a accurate statement. I find that saying FSX Flightplan is very misleading. I see on a lot of other forums that most still do not know what a true FSX FP is vs a FP that trys to mimic the true FSX FP. Now Users are saying they have lost all their animated vehicle freeway traffic and small sail/power boats because they are not using FSX Flight Plans. It amazes me how TTool FS2004 or FSX compiled FP takes the blame for so many different things that do not even relate to each other.

We never worried about using the TDBB compiler for FS2002, 2004 and now comes FSX. I think there is too much emphasis put on what some term FSX Flight Plans without really understanding what we have always lost since FS2002 with the use of TTools.

FSX is no different then FS2002 and FS2004 when TTools is used to build flight plans as long as the user understands that we have always gained something with TTools but we always lose something also.

When FS2002 was released no one jumped up and said we need to use FS2002 FP's. When FS2004 was released no one jumped up and said we have to use FS2004 FP's. Now comes FSX and it seems that there is some kind of big change that says we must use FSX FP's or at least it doesn't hurt. Hurt what?

I understand what a true FSX flight plan is vs a so called FSX Flight Plan but user's that write a FP with TTools should not be lead to believe that a converted FP from TTools to FSX is in some way better unless we define what does better really mean.

If a User actually made a FSX Flightplan it would only take a few AI test flights to get rid of those FSX Flight Plans and go back to TTool type FP's.

I think for testing I would use a default plane, and parking radius and wingspan that I know match. Say maybe, The default baron and some small GA ramps. Then watch your planes land and take off.

I agree with that part of the testing

Nothing personal here but just stimulating some thought on the use of the words FSX Flight Plan vs what is a true FSX Flight Plan.

 

[bobbyjack]

Thanks, Jim. Hey, no problem. I'm trying to learn here just like everybody else. It is clear that I am no expert, and if I say something that is inaccurate, well, I expect to be called on it.

I used TTools all the time in FS9. When FSX came along and I saw that FPs where different, I never thought of using FS9 plans in FSX. So I never have, and I don't really know what effect they have. I never used FS9 FPs, or coverted FPs. I figured out Aisort(which uses the TDBB), and it was difficult for me,but I did it. Aisort has limitations, so no I use AIFP. With AIsort, if I wanted 8 737s to park, I had to have 10 parking spots for them. Also airports had to be 10 miles apart. Small things, to be sure. Point is I don't really use anything from FS9. OK a couple of AI planes, but that is about it. Dosen't make sense to me to mix sims too much. So, when I say an FSX FP, I don't mean a converted plan. Although, I have tested some converted plans and they seem to work OK.

I, too, have seen reference all kinds of problems that may or may not be caused AI flightplans. I've never seen them in my sim because I try to use FSX tools. AIFP may or may not be a true FSX tool, but it works.

Bob

 

[jvile]

Thanks Bob

Very informative

I had already wrote many FP's with the TDBB (since the days of FS2002) so did not use AISort but knew the outcome. You may not be a expert but if I need to know something more on the subject of FSX FP's I am posting in your direction.

 

[GHD]

I use TTools and convert to FSX format via AIFP with no problems due to percentage of gates available, minimum ground time etc. and I still see ships and ferries.

 

[FlyEF]

I use TTools to and convert to FSX format via bglfpfsxconvert.exe with no problems. I still see ships and ferries to. I've more than 200 flightplans, from MAIW, WOAI and mine.

I have tested the flights from PHTO to PHKO (both stock) and there is no problem.

But one remark: If the intervall is 12h, the legs should start within the first 12h, i.e. 06:00 and 09:00. That's from the FSX SDK.

Regards

Horst

 

[bobbyjack]

Could be the folks that are not seeing boats are using FS9 FPs.

Jim:

You make me laugh. I'm sure you have forgotten more about the nuts and bolts of this sim stuff than I will ever know. I know nothing about real airports and real flying. My needs are simple. I make some airports and fly planes with my own textures between them. And have a blast.

Bob

 

[cattz]

I know nothing about real airports and real flying. My needs are simple. I make some airports and fly planes with my own textures between them. And have a blast.

Bob

And that's exactly what it's all about - couldn't agree more.

 

[papeg]

Hi all, thanks for the replys

I'm still having no luck, I removed all of my old traffic BLGs, downloaded AI Flight Planner (V 1.6.03) and created a flight plan using this tool. I converted my traffic BLG to FSX format but this still didn't help. So, I deleted this traffic BLG and made a new one with AIFP, just a simple plan, a beach barron taking off from Kailua (PHKO)at 0100 and landing at Hilo (PHTO) then returning at 0500. I had the same results, the plane would disappear just before pushback. The return trip the plane would pushback, taxi, and take off but disappear after is was about 10NM from Hilo. Here is my flight plan.

AC#1,N71FS,1%,24Hr,VFR
(1) 01:00,01:38,100,R,200,PHTO
(2) 05:00,05:38,100,R,210,PHKO

I don't know what else to do, my AP works for those of you who have tried it so it can't be an airport problem. My flight plan works at other airports (i.e. from HI32 to PHTO it works great, I can fly all sorts of planes (small GA planes) back and forth between these airports. But Kailua, and a few other on this island I've tryed don't work.

I'm stumped, I guess I'll keep messing around with it or may have to start using other airports.

 

[bobbyjack]

papeg

Two questions.

Do planes land and park OK at PHKO? If not, there is something not quite right. Make sure you only have one PHKO in the sim.

What do you mean planes disappear 10 miles out? How do you know that. There is only a 10 mile threshold from the user aircraft anyway. Plus HILO might be near the edge of a traffic sector.

Plan looks OK. I think you have some kind of airport problem.

Hang in there.

Bob

 

[jvile]

But Kailua, and a few other on this island I've tryed don't work.

I'm stumped, I guess I'll keep messing around with it or may have to start using other airports.

Did you make HI13 a airport? There are a lot of other issues with what you are trying to do but in order to address all the problems you are having I have to know if you made HI13 a airport with ADE.

If HI13 is the default airport that shipped with FSX then any airplane on a FP from PHKO to HI13 will disappear on the pushback command. The reason is all airports on that Island are within the AI Visual Zone Sectors and AI Planes flying between any of the airports on that island are flying on aircraft.cfg speed values and not calculated FP time values.

 

[jvile]

I use TTools to and convert to FSX format via bglfpfsxconvert.exe with no problems. I still see ships and ferries to. I've more than 200 flightplans, from MAIW, WOAI and mine.

I have tested the flights from PHTO to PHKO (both stock) and there is no problem.

But one remark: If the intervall is 12h, the legs should start within the first 12h, i.e. 06:00 and 09:00. That's from the FSX SDK.

Regards

Horst

The Traffic Toolbox SDK in FSX says the following

Q: When I try to add a custom route I get an error message that the Zulu hour must be between 0 and 3.

A: If your route repeats every four hours, then the times you input must be between 0000Z and 0359Z inclusive. Likewise, if your route repeats every eight hours, the times you input must be between 0000Z and 0759Z inclusive, and so on.

None of that means anything and is just one more example of all the restrictions used for Flight Plans built using the Traffic Database Builder command line utility which makes a FSX FP.

You used TTools to generate your Flight Plans which does not have all the rules and restrictions that TTDB has. The only qualifer for a repeat period with TTools is that the total circuit must be completed within the repeat period of 12 hours if 12 hours is used.

In TDBB the repeat period is tied to Zulu and the Flight must start before the end of the time period of Zulu.

In TTools the repeat period of 12 is not tied to Zulu so a Flight can start any time as long as it is finished by 12 hours within the same day.

 

[GHD]

I had the same results, the plane would disappear just before pushback. The return trip the plane would pushback, taxi, and take off but disappear after is was about 10NM from Hilo.

There are three points to consider.

1. If the aircraft disappears before pushback, there must be no taxi path to the runway. It works fine with the default airport.

2. Using the default AFD for PHKO, the flight will only work with the wind from the north. If it takes off on runway 17, it will run into the mountain. You could try an IFR flight.

3. The default Baron cruises at about 150Kts, if you have it set higher in the flightplan, it will run out of time before reaching Hilo and disappear.

BTW. I tried you flight by compiling with AIFPC and it worked fine (with the wind direction proviso)

 

[papeg]

Hi all,

Planes will not land at Kailua (PHKO), I'm using a "radar" that I've gotten off of AVSIM, I think it is the ATC radar used for multiplayer and adapted for use in aircraft. I can see the plane on the ground at Hilo (PHTO), Traffic Tool Box shows the plane going through "preflt, push back, taxi". It takes off, (I watch it in a seperate window) and flies west toward Kailua. After 10 NM or so it disappears from the radar and from the window.

If I start the sim at a time after the plane was to takeoff and before it was scheduled to land then I can see the plane in flight and eventually land at Hilo. In reverse, I don't see the plane.

I did edit HI13 and HI32, put in parking, taxiways and added a runway path. In a flight plan I was using earlier as a test I had a plane at HI13 flying to Kailua and a plane at HI32 flying to Hilo, just to see what would happen. the plane from HI13 would perform the same as the plane at Kailua but a plane at HI32 would work correctly.

So, what is the "AI Visual Zone Sectors"? How do I know where they are? And how should I take this into account when planning AI flights?

I will double check the speed I set the Baron to and change the flight plan to fly IFR to see what happens. I do have some airports that I've downloaded from CalClassic website (I love flying props and flying like it's the 50s and 60s) that were designed for FS9, maybe they are causing some sort of conflict. Maybe I'll move these and see if the problem clears. I'll let you know tonight what happens.

Thanks, Greg

BTW, I've been reading posts about the newest ADE, is this still in beta testing?

 

[bobbyjack]

Greg

It is not unusual behavior for plane moving away from the user aircraft to disappear after a certian distance. It should reappear at the destination AP. Do planes show near PHKO and just fly off, or do they never show at all. Even if there were taxiway problems, a plane should land but then disappear.

Yes, try disabling your CalClassic files. Making your sim as stock as possible when you are having problems always seems like a good idea to me. Sometimes things get altered we don't even know about, and are very hard to find later. As a test, try making your FP with a 4 hr repeat. Gives you more times of day to work with. You say you had trouble with stock PHKO. I wonder if any planes land there. In my tests, planes took off but I haven't had a chance to see if they land.

Bob