P3D v2 Should photoreal images follow a size guideline?

[Clutch Cargo]

Is there any disadvantages (or advantages) to creating ground photoreal image sizes say 1000 x 1000px as opposed to say 1024 x 1024? Maybe I am confusing texture sheets sizes that need to be like 512x512, etc.

I've been trying a few different sizes checking on load times, efficiency, sharpness, file size and so long as I seem to fill the entire quadrant with the image I see no preference?

 

[GaryGB]

Hello:

Is this for texturing 2D planar (flat 3D model) G-Polys, or for creating custom photo-real land class textures with FS SDK Resample ?

GaryGB

 

[GaryGB]

Hello again:

Aside from basic considerations of utilizing textures with dimensions which are always "Powers of 2",

is this for textures used with G-Polys, or is this for custom photo-real land class via FS SDK Resample ?

GaryGB

 

[Clutch Cargo]

This is for creating custom photoreal ground textures via resample but not land class. Aka 'MegaScenery Earth' type stuff. Sounds like you are saying their could be some issues down the road if I tried to create land class or ground polys from it?

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Again:

I was using legacy terminology based on a technicality that "custom photoreal ground textures" are actually a form of custom photo-real land class applied to tiles with specified local geographic coordinates which are not subject to re-use in other regions as textures for other local land class tiles (such as IIUC, are made as "Park polygons" to replace default land class tiles as in some 3rd party land class products ex: GEX, FTX etc.)

AFAIK, textures for 3D computer graphics when performance is a consideration are always "Powers of 2":

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/problem-creating-texture.431372/#post-683655


See especially:

http://www.katsbits.com/tutorials/textures/make-better-textures-correct-size-and-power-of-two.php

Mapping textures onto "most" MSFS 3D objects may require a 1 to 10 pixel border to facilitate proper display when LOD-switching, although IIUC, MSFS may only require use of a 1-pixel border in adjacent and overlapping textures used for terrain land class tiles and/or G-Polys.

FYI: At a CMD prompt in the [FSX SDK install path]\SDK\Environment Kit\Terrain SDK sub-folder, type:

ImageTool.exe -?

One then gets a "help" message; curiously, it's text can't be copied from the (graphical?) message box. :-roll

Of particular interest are sections regarding "Powers of 2", and also use of ImageTool for processing FS terrain textures.

[EDITED]

PS: For those having difficulty getting ImageTool to display its help from the command prompt, see:

http://www.cbfsim.co.uk/cbfs_bb/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=14718&start=10

---------------------------
Imagetool
---------------------------
Usage:
imagetool [flags] [inputfiles]

Where flags are:
-o [string] Specify output file name
-batch Force batch processing
-verbose Verbose output [DEFAULT]
-brief Brief output
-nogui No GUI
-nobeep Turns off batch file beeping
-tga Output files are in targa (tga) format
-dds Output files are in DirectX (dds) format
-bmp Output files are in bitmap (bmp) format [DEFAULT]
-imgui Output format is to be used by IMGUI
-auto Output format is picked automatically
-DXT1 Output format is compressed DXT1
-DXT3 Output format is compressed DXT3
-DXT5 Output format is compressed DXT5
-PTC [Q,[Qa]] Output format is compressed PTC
-32 Output format is 32-bit
-24 Output format is 24-bit
-4444 Output format is 16-bit (4444)
-1555 Output format is 16-bit (1555)
-565 Output format is 16-bit (565)
-8 Output format is 8-bit palletized [DEFAULT]
-1 Output format is 1-bit monochrome
-detail Output format is to be used as a detail texture
-gauge Output format is to be used in a flight sim gauge
-terrain Output format is to be used as a generic terrain tile
-terrainphoto Output format is to be used as terrain photo scenery
-border Create a 1 pixel border around the image
-hasborder The image already contains a 1 pixel border
-lm The image is a light map
-tile The image self tiles
-fold Fold the Edge colors for clamped textures
-vflip Vertical flip
-mip Generate mip maps [DEFAULT]
-addmip [file] Add custom mip maps
-nomip Do not generate mip maps
-dither Use Floyd-Steinberg dithering when reducing color depth
-nodither Do not use any dithering when reducing color depth
-invert Invert the alpha channel
-createalpha Create the alpha channel using the RGB value of the (0,0) pixel
-warning Enable warnings (FS specific) [DEFAULT]
-nowarning Disable warnings
-verify Verify that the image matches the given settings
-stop Show a warning dialog (only used with -verify) [DEFAULT]
-nostop Do not show a warning dialog (only used with -verify) [DEFAULT]
-alpha Allow alpha in the bitmap (only used with -verify)
-noalpha Do not allow alpha in the bitmap (only used with -verify)
-e [string] File extension to use given by [string]
-r Recursively traverse the sub directories
-? [string] Help on the topic given by [string]
-fallback Builds a fallback texture that can be loaded much faster than the base image.
-redCorrection Modifies the red component of colors in the mip chain
-blueCorrection Modifies the blue component of colors in the mip chain
-greenCorrection Modifies the green component of colors in the mip chain
-RedInAlpha Put the red channel in the alpha channel and zero out red

Batch processing only occurs if one of the command line options is supplied; otherwise,
the images are opened in imagetool for manual processing."

[END_EDIT]



GaryGB

 

[JRobinson]

1024x1024 would be miniscule in terms of photoreal sources, at 30cm that would only cover a little over 1000 feet of sim real estate in both directions. Resampled PR sources can be huge, I believe resample chokes on .tifs in excess of 2 Gb but aside from that there are no size or proportion limitations as long as you know the corner coordinates and your imagery is WGS84 projected. I personally find anything over ~20,000px x ~15,000px to be very sluggish in PhotoShop, it takes two minutes to load one, another 2 min to save one, sometimes panning gets sluggish, etc. It's just easier IMHO to break those up into smaller chunks and multi-source them in the .inf.

20,000px x 15,000 is marginally doable, 15,000 x 10,000 is about right, the largest one I've ever tried to work with was 21,368px x 24,077px and it was a nightmare.

 

[Clutch Cargo]

Thx Gary,

Those articles were quite interesting. Just glad I am doing the testing /research up front rather than learning the hard way down the road. But that was what tosday was for... to test some limits. I was running a 16000 x 16000 px image in P3D. It appeared to run good but as those articles said... gaming programs and GPU's don't like it. I was close so close to processing a 16384 x 16384 but ran out of memory and I'm sure there could be other bumps. Think I'll back it down to 8192 x 8192 px.

 

[Clutch Cargo]

Thx too, JR for the response. Didn't see your reply there when I posted. Yea... things were getting real sluggish. After reading your post I may try a few more different sizes just to see. So your saying even though computer imaging prefers powers of two with ground images it is not really an issue? So for example I could go for 10,000 x 10,000? Again, the thought is maybe it is more efficient to run those at pwoers of two as the articles suggest.

 

[GHD]

I believe that resample works on QMid 14 boundaries. You can check this in TmfViewer by checking "Show missing data".

The size of the input area is immaterial.

 

[JRobinson]

Exactly, resample will break up the imagery however it sees fit and pack the textures into a .bgl. 10,000 x 10,000 px is not powers of two anyway, 8192 x8192 would be closest, 16,384 x 16,384 would be the next step up.

 

[GaryGB]

PS: This appears to be FS SDK ImageTool "more detailed" Help output, showing otherwise undocumented ImageTool functions !

[EDITED]

(Click on the colored quote area below to see entire excerpt of my original post at AVSIM -re-formatted here for legibility)

NOTE: I've decided that it might be better to re-post this info in a standard forum text format which will be less likely to be overlooked or missed when folks scan this thread and may not "go the full distance" of clicking on the compressed "quote" roll-out message box; so here's the full content:


Originally Posted by: GaryGB at AVSIM MSFS Forums - Scenery Design Sub-Forum

Posted On: 21 October 2008 - 11:06 AM <- Note: Original post has been 'mutilated' by AVSIM forum archiving ->

Original Post URL: http://forum.avsim.net/topic/82158-image-tool-guide/#entry560541


I have thus far been unsuccessful getting FSX-SP2 SDK ImageTool.exe to respond to the normal CMD Mode methods to display help info.

So I opened it in "Quick View" (remember that file viewer program from the install options in Windows 95 & 98 ?) ...in 'Hexadecimal' Viewer Mode.

Here's what I saw when "viewing" (read-only!) the FSX-SP2 SDK ImageTool.exe in my legally purchased copy of FSX Acceleration).

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-batch ...Force batch processing.

Batch processing is activated when any legal batch option is supplied on then command line; however, if the conversion is to be done purely using the defaults this option must be used.

-o [string] ...Specifies output file path and name

-verbose ...Turns on verbose output during the batch process.

-brief ...Turns off verbose output during the batch process.

-nogui ...Turns off output during the batch process.

-tga ...The output is in the targa format (.tga).

Note: Not all formats can be expressed as a targa file. Notably, the DXT1 and DXT3 compressed image formats are not supported; furthermore, a lot of programs can not read all targa formats.

Mipmap information is not saved with this format (use the bmp format instead)

-bmp ...The output is in the bitmap format (bmp).

Note: A lot of programs can not read all bmp formats. The most widely supported formats are 8-bit and 24-bit.

Mipmap information is saved with this format; however, this is specific to the files generated with this program. That means that if the file is opened with another program (paint, Photoshop) and saved again the mipmap information is lost.

-dds ...The output is in the DirectX format (dds).

Mipmap information is saved with this format.

-auto ...The output format is automatically picked.

The image format used is picked depending on whether the image contains any alpha information, or not.

The formats chosen are as follows:
16-bit (565) - No alpha information present in source image.
16-bit (1555) - Single bit alpha information (chromakey) present in source image.
16-bit (4444) - Arbitrary alpha information present in source image.


-DXT ...The output format used is DXT1.

This is one of the compressed texture formats supported by DirectX. It supports 1-bit alpha (i.e. colorkey) information. The resulting image uses only 4-bits per pixel; however, this comes at the cost of potential banding in the resulting picture.

Note: This image format can only be written out in the bmp file format; furthermore, most programs can not read the bitmap files generated with this image format.

-DXT3 ...The output format used is DXT3.

This is one of the compressed texture formats supported by DirectX. It supports 4-bit alpha information. The resulting image uses only 8-bits per pixel; however, this comes at the cost of potential banding in the resulting picture.

Note: This image format can only be written out in the bmp file format; furthermore, most programs can not read the bitmap files generated with this image format.

-DXT5 ...The output format used is DXT5.

This is one of the compressed texture formats supported by DirectX. It supports interpolated alpha information. The resulting image uses only 8-bits per pixel; however, this comes at the cost of potential banding in the resulting picture.

Note: This image format can only be written out in the bmp file format; furthermore, most programs can not read the bitmap files generated with this image format.

-PTC [quality,[alpha quality]] ...The output format used is PTC.

PTC is a Microsoft proprietary lossy compression format. Very high compression ratios are possible at the expense of some loss of image quality. The desired image quality can be specified by the optional quality parameter, where %g is the best quality and %g is the lowest quality. The quality of any alpha channel can be specified separately. The default quality is %g and the default alpha channel quality is %g.

-32 ...The output format used is 32-bit (8-bits for the red, green, blue, and alpha channels).

Note: Most programs can not read the files generated with this image format.

-24 ...The output format used is 24-bit (8-bits for the red, green, and blue channels).

Note: This format does not contain an alpha channel; however, it is highly compatible with many other programs (paint, photoshop).

-4444 ...The output format used is 16-bit (4-bits for the red, green, blue, and alpha channels).

Note: Most programs can not read the files generated with this image format.

-444 ...The output format used is 16-bit (4-bits for the red, green, blue, and alpha channels).

Note: Most programs can not read the files generated with this image format.

-565 ...The output format used is 16-bit (5-bits for the red, 6-bits for the green, and 5-bits for the blue channel).

Note: Most programs can not read the files generated with this image format.

-1555 ...The output format used is 16-bit (5-bits for the red, green, and blue channels, and 1-bit for the alpha channel).

Note: Most programs will ignore the alpha channel in this format; furthermore, they have the potential of corrupting the alpha channel when the image is opened and saved.

-555 ...The output format used is 16-bit (5-bits for the red, green, and blue channels, and 1-bit for the alpha channel).

Note: Most programs will ignore the alpha channel in this format; furthermore, they have the potential of corrupting the alpha channel when the image is opened and saved.

-1 ...The output format used is 1-bit monochrome.

-8 ...The output format used is 8-bit

This format uses a 256 entry color table. Each entry in the color table is 32-bits (8-bitsfor the red, green, and blue channels).

Note: Most programs will ignore the alpha channel in the color table; furthermore, they have the potential of corrupting the alpha channel when the image is opened and saved.

-invert ...The alpha channel is inverted

If the image format contains alpha information the inverse of the original alpha channel is written out.

-createalpha ...The alpha channel is created using the RGB value of the upper left pixel of the image

Only available with the -32 option.

-mip ...Generates mipmaps.

The resulting image will contain mipmap information (pre-filtered smaller versions of the source image).

Note: Mipmaps can only be written out in the bitmap (bmp) format; furthermore, the resulting files are non-standard. That means when the file is opened in another program the mipmap information will not show up.

If the image format is one of the compressed texture formats (DXT1, DXT3) a shorter mip chain will be generated, since these formats have a minimum size of 4x4 pixels.

-addmip ...Load mips from the specified file.

Note: The file name can be a wildcard to allow the addition of several mips at once.

-vflip ...Vertical Flip.

Flips the input image vertically

-nomip ...Removes any mipmap information.

The resulting image will be stripped of any mipmap information that may be present in the image.

border ...Create a 1 pixel border around the image

-hasborder ...Need Description.

-lm ...Need Description.

-tile ...Need Description.

-fold ...Fold the Edge colors for clamped textures

-nofold ...Need Description.

-warning ...Enables warnings.

Generates warnings when a format that is incompatible with Flight Simulator (tm) is encountered during the batch process.

-nowarning ...Suppresses warnings.

No warning messages are generated during the batch process. Only use this if the resulting images are not to be used with Flight Simulator (tm) directly.

alpha ...Allow images with alpha information

This option only has meaning in conjunction with the -verify option. It means that no warnings or errors will be generated when images with alpha information are encountered during the verification process.

-noalpha ...Disallows images with alpha information

This option only has meaning in conjunction with the -verify option. It means that an error will be generated when 8-bit images with alpha information are encountered during the verification process.

-stop ...Show a warning dialog

This option only has meaning in conjunction with the -verify option. It means that an error dialog will be displayed when a warning or error is encountered during processing. Further processing is paused until the error dialog is dismissed.

-nostop ...Suppress the warning dialog

This option only has meaning in conjunction with the -verify option. It means that no error dialog will be displayed when a warning or error is encountered during processing. The error will still be noted in the status window.

-verify ...Verifies the images for compatibility with Flight Simulator (tm)

Instead of performing conversion the images are checked for validity. That means that each image is checked for valid dimensions (width and height must be a power of two, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32 ... ), for valid image format (8-bit, 16-bit, DXT1, DXT3, or PTC), for existence of mipmap information (suppress with -nomip), and for existence of alpha information in 8-bit images (suppress with -alpha).

-r ...Recursively traverse sub directories

This option allows the processing of entire directory trees. All directories in the tree are traversed. If no directory is specified as part of the input path the recursion starts at the current directory.

-e [string] ...Specify the file extension

This option allows the user to override the file extension to use with the output file. If this option is omitted a default file extension is used.

The defaults used are:
.tga is used with the -tga option.
.bmp is used with the -bmp option if no mipmaps are present.
.mip is used with the -bmp option if mipmaps are present.


-? [string] ...Brings up the help topics.

-? by itself ...Brings up the index of help options.

-? followed by the option (i.e. -? tga) ...Brings up specific information about that topic.

-gauge ...Output a bitmap to be used as a bitmap in a flight sim gauge (.gau) file.

This option does special processing to preserve the (0,0,0) and (1,1,1) values.


-terrain ...Output a bitmap to be used as a terrain texture file.

This is the same as using the following switches:
-border ...to create a 1 pixel border around the image
-tile ...to indicate this image self tiles
-mip ...to create mip maps
-DXT1 ...to change the format to DXT1


-terrainphoto ...Output a bitmap to be used as a terrain photo texture file.

This is the same as using the following switches:
-hasborder ...the image already has a 1 pixel border
-mip ...to create mip maps
-DXT1 ...to change the format to DXT1

-imgui ...The output format is a bitmap to be used by IMGUI

-redCorrection ...The red component of each pixel in each mip is modified by this value.

-greenCorrection ...The green component of each pixel in each mip is modified by this value.

-blueCorrection ...The blue component of each pixel in each mip is modified by this value.

-RedInAlpha ...Put the red component in the alpha channel and zero out the red component.

Used in conjunction with DXT5 to give good compressed normal maps.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ImageTool Usage:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

imagetool [flags] ...Where flags are:

-o [string] ...Specify output file name

-batch ...Force batch processing

-verbose ...Verbose output [DEFAULT]

-brief ...Brief output

-nogui ...No GUI

-nobeep ...Turns off batch file beeping

-tga ...Output files are in targa (tga) format

-dds ...Output files are in DirectX (dds) format

-bmp ...Output files are in bitmap (bmp) format [DEFAULT]

-imgui ...Output format is to be used by IMGUI

-auto ...Output format is picked automatically

-DXT1 ...Output format is compressed DXT1

-DXT3 ...Output format is compressed DXT3

-DXT5 ...Output format is compressed DXT5

-PTC [Q,[Qa]] ...Output format is compressed PTC

-32 ...Output format is 32-bit

-24 ...Output format is 24-bit

-4444 ...Output format is 16-bit (4444)

-1555 ...Output format is 16-bit (1555)

-565 ...Output format is 16-bit (565)

-8 ...Output format is 8-bit palletized [DEFAULT]

-1 ...Output format is 1-bit monochrome

-detail ...Output format is to be used as a detail texture

-gauge ...Output format is to be used in a flight sim gauge

-terrain ...Output format is to be used as a generic terrain tile

-terrainphoto ...Output format is to be used as terrain photo scenery

-border ...Create a 1 pixel border around the image

-hasborder ...The image already contains a 1 pixel border

-lm ...The image is a light map

-tile ...The image self tiles

-fold ...Fold the Edge colors for clamped textures

-vflip ...Vertical flip

-mip ...Generate mip maps [DEFAULT]

-addmip [file] ...Add custom mip maps

-nomip ...Do not generate mip maps

-dither ...Use Floyd-Steinberg dithering when reducing color depth

-nodither ...Do not use any dithering when reducing color depth

-invert ...Invert the alpha channel

-createalpha ...Create the alpha channel using the RGB value of the (0,0) pixel

-warning ...Enable warnings (FS specific) [DEFAULT]

-nowarning ...Disable warnings

-verify ...Verify that the image matches the given settings

-stop ...Show a warning dialog (only used with -verify) [DEFAULT]

-nostop ...Do not show a warning dialog (only used with -verify) [DEFAULT]

-alpha ...Allow alpha in the bitmap (only used with -verify)

-noalpha ...Do not allow alpha in the bitmap (only used with -verify)

-e [string] ...File extension to use given by [string]

-r ...Recursively traverse the sub directories

-? [string] ...Help on the topic given by [string]

-fallback ...Builds a fallback texture that can be loaded much faster than the base image.

-redCorrection ...Modifies the red component of colors in the mip chain

-blueCorrection ...Modifies the blue component of colors in the mip chain

-greenCorrection ...Modifies the green component of colors in the mip chain

-RedInAlpha ...Put the red channel in the alpha channel and zero out

-redBatch ...Processing only occurs if one of the command line options is supplied; otherwise,the images are opened in imagetool for manual processing.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


ASCII text from the bottom of the ImageTool file (possibly used to display a ImageTool 'graphical' help image, help on specific Flags given the appropriate CMD mode switch, error and status messages, etc. ? ) "

Imagetoold:bt1202privatecoretoolsimagetoolbatch.cpp

-batch-verbose-brief-nogui-nobeep-tga-bmp-dds-auto-DXT1-DXT3-DXT5-RedInAlpha-PTC-32-24-4444-444-565-1555-555-8-1-detail-gauge-gaugealpha-imgui-dither-nodither-invert-createalpha-mip-addmip-vflip-nomip-terrain-terrainphoto-border-hasborder-lm-tile-fold-nofold-warning-nowarning-alpha-noalpha-stop-nostop-verify-r-o-e-?-fallback-redCorrection-blueCorrection-greenCorrection

Image: %s
Format: %s
(ILLEGAL FORMAT)
Width: %d (NOT POWER OF TWO)
Height: %d
Warning (MISMATCH) (NOT A POWER OF TWO)
Yes
No
Mip: %s
None
Colorkey Alpha
Alpha: %s, colorkey, alpha, mip "%s" %dx %d, %s %s %s %s
---> FAILED Processing File: "%s"*.*_def.%s.%s.mip.bmp.tga_def.dds.dds
d:bt1202privatecoretoolsimagetoolbitmap.cpprb

Corrupted image dimensions.
Could not read bitmap image data.wb
Could not write bitmap file header.
Could not write bitmap info header.
Could not write FS info header.
Could not write bitmap image data.d:bt1202privatecoretoolsimagetoolbuildborder.cpp
Adding Border
Copying Image
Dithering Image
Quantizing Image
Inverting Alpha Channel
Creating Alpha Channel
Calculating Alpha Mode
destination source Copy function not supported for %s
image format.Dither function not supported for %s image format.
Quantize function not supported for this image format.
Invert function not supported for this image format.
Alpha mode function not supported for %s images.
Filtering image from %dx%d to %dx%d.p?

FSX.BGL.STN.MOD.R8.R81.R82.0.1.PAL.HAZ.PCX.BMP.PIX.VIS.AIR.GAU.ICN.BIN.WAV.MDL.DLL
.FS6.BND.NDL.PNL.ADV.SIM.LOG.VID.TMP.TXR.LES.CHL.DRV.SC1.CFG.MIS.QCB.FLT.CMG.TXT.PLN.
DP.CDP.DYN.WX.FX.GSL.ABL.FSR.XML.CAB.ZIP.DAT.MIP.PDF.BRF.HTM.WT.WTB.CLD.ANIM.XMLX.RWD.DDS.
FSSAVE.SPB.JPG.PNG

FyFS?Zy;b?:Eo@O@@`?`@H @mRSDS&hHU"

PS: Extra info that 'may' assist in deciphering use of " %g " in ImageTool help " -PTC " command switches:

http://www.gnu.org/software/libc/manual/html_node/Floating_002dPoint-Conversions.html


http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/cvxextractor-exporting-vector-data.432918/page-3

[END_EDIT]

GaryGB

 

[GHD]

 

[GaryGB]

[EDITED]

Thanks George, for that "worked example" of the FS SDK ImageTool help output in "-Brief" mode using that specific command switch.


I have re-formatted the quoted excerpt above from my original post at AVSIM in 2008 for legibility, which apparently shows the help output of FS SDK ImageTool for the "-?" command switch, as well as the text returned for queries on individual " -? " [String] command switches, and additional info seen at the end of the file ...using a "Hex mode file viewer".

[END_EDIT]


Hope this helps as an ongoing text-based reference and learning resource for the OP and other interested readers in the FS Community.

GaryGB

 

[GHD]

Hi Gary,

What is the practical outcome from your "-verbose" output? Are you able to process terrain textures?

BTW, what are terrain textures?

 

[GaryGB]

Hi George:

The "practical outcome" of posting the FS SDK ImageTool "-verbose" output is 2-fold:

* Making a more legible version of the FS SDK ImageTool help "documentation" available to the FS development community in 'text' format.

* Providing a resource for potential use by the OP while processing "terrain textures" ...whether for use with G-Polys or FS SDK Resample.


The subject of FS "terrain textures" is a broad topic, and would require more time to explain comprehensively than I have available at the moment, as the history of the use of the term "textures" in the context of various legacy versions of FS would need to be presented along with more recent connotations for use of that term "textures".

Perhaps I'll get some time to address this more appropriately on a future occasion.


In the mean time, as we follow the several seemingly related concurrent threads by "Clutch", we may better understand what exactly his goal is as the topic of his posts are explored more fully.


FYI: Based on more recent info posted by the OP:

* One goal is to make custom FS SDK Resample mesh-clinging custom photo-real land class scenery

...and:

* Another goal is to make custom autogen for use with that FS SDK Resample mesh-clinging custom photo-real land class scenery

...with this further clarification by the OP:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/finding-extents-of-1-2m-tiles.431904/#post-689054

Well, the end goal of my quest is to prevent custom autogen from overlapping adjacent tiles. That could result in one compilation overwriting another leaving visual gaps in the scenery. SO I got to thinking the best way it to slice everything based on autogen tile extents... 1.2m. Of course the workspace would be greater than that but if I new to "slice" my imagery based on multiples of that it could save headaches (which I have already encountered), down the road.

I'll re-install SBuilderX to see what it offers in way of display that type. Seems like rhumbaflappy's tool would be a godsend if it went to the level of extents I need. Maybe using a LOD13 or 15 may be all I would need. Need to test to find out.

Just want to say you guys are great at helping out with ideas and input on several of my recent threads. So refreshing

I'm thinking, George, that perhaps explaining your own previously cited approach of using dual output of "terrain textures" in both FS9 and FSX format might now be called for.

That way the OP can better see from your excellent "worked examples", the results which can be achieved for annotating his aerial imagery tiles using ex: AgenT from the UKVFR package initially in FS9 format, with subsequent conversion of the 'finished' annotations into the final FSX autogen file format.

It appears that such an annotation workflow might assist in ensuring that the OP will not incur "custom autogen overlapping adjacent tiles".

GaryGB

 

[GHD]

ImageTool is a red-herring in this discussion, it can be used to convert .tga files to bmp with mips as used by the Fs2004 Resample but not with the FSX Resample

The OP was requesting the size of a "terrain cell" which is 0.010986328125 decimal degrees latitude by 0.0146484375 decimal degrees longitude. These dimensions are used by both FS9 and FSX.

The easiest way to visualise terrain cells is to use the FSX Annotator on a photo bgl.

 

[GaryGB]

ImageTool is a red-herring in this discussion, it can be used to convert .tga files to bmp with mips as used by the Fs2004 Resample but not with the FSX Resample

I believe that statements made as to whether something is (or is not !) a "red-herring" should properly always be accompanied by an assertion that such a statement is one's own opinion (at least out of courtesy, if not also out of prudent efforts to abide by the 'spirit' of the admonishment to "Please keep discussions civil" as posted here at FSDeveloper forums):

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/please-keep-discussions-civil.216157/


Of course that's not to infer one can not- or should not- maintain and (appropriately) express ones' own opinions on topics under discussion here.


It is my objective observation and thus my own opinion, that the OP, in this 'particular' thread (one of IMHO several concurrent topically-related threads by the OP at FSDeveloper) ...was asking:

"Should photoreal images follow a size guideline?"

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/should-photoreal-images-follow-a-size-guideline.431618/


My responses in this thread endeavor to provide the OP with pertinent info on processing ex: aerial imagery "for creating custom photoreal ground textures via resample" ...as stated by the OP.

IMHO, the 'more detailed' output help info from FS SDK ImageTool which I presented above offers very useful info which might assist the OP to process custom photo-real ground textures into properly formatted source files which can be used by FSX SDK Resample ...in accordance with the requirements of that FSX Resample utility and general caveats for use of custom imagery with MSFS.

A cursory review of the many capabilities listed (and at least partially explained) by the "FS SDK ImageTool" 'more detailed' help info posted above should IMO, make it clear that one could, for example, early in the development process, derive information about whether one's imagery pixel dimensions are in "Powers of 2" ...when processed via ImageTool.

But AFAIK, that is only "1" of the many potentially helpful options which might be derived from pre-processing via FS SDK ImageTool, one's imagery intended for (eventual) use as source files for "custom photoreal ground textures via resample".

The OP was requesting the size of a "terrain cell" which is 0.010986328125 decimal degrees latitude by 0.0146484375 decimal degrees longitude. These dimensions are used by both FS9 and FSX.

Discussions related to OP queries on terrain tile dimensions originated in another thread here:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/finding-extents-of-1-2m-tiles.431904/

The easiest way to visualise terrain cells is to use the FSX Annotator on a photo bgl.

I agree; although the use of "FS Quad Matrix Grid" overlays in FS SDK TMFViewer and in ex: SBuilderX 64-bit (now with enhanced multi-LOD level quad grid display features in version 3.14) ...may prove very helpful to the OP as well.


Hope this helps the OP (and other interested readers !)

GaryGB

 

[GHD]

I am well and truely admonished

I think the answer to the original query was given undependently by Jim (reply #5) and myself (reply #9) above.

 

[GaryGB]

I am well and truely admonished

I think the answer to the original query was given undependently by Jim (reply #5) and myself (reply #9) above.

Hi George:

A minor point of clarification to assist the OP and other readers here: my own reply was #5, and IIUC, 'Jim's reply' that you refer to was ...#6 ?:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/th...s-follow-a-size-guideline.431618/#post-685854


And I do appreciate that these forums provide the opportunity for all to offer their own answers to queries by OP's "undependently" (-which although my FireFox Spell Checker complains bitterly, I cheerfully accept with good intentions as an acceptable word IIUC, referring to 'independently' posting one's contributions to a discussion ...which was my point in the first part of my last reply above):

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/th...s-follow-a-size-guideline.431618/#post-689106

GaryGB

 

[JRobinson]

"IMHO" (and from a bit of practical experience) Imagetool has no relevance to this conversation about P3D2 terrain, it may have had relevance to a conversation about FS9 photoreal where the output from resample.exe was in .tga format in which case Imagetool could be used with the -terrainphoto switch to output .bmps for the texture folder, still however, "IMHO" Imagetool has no practical application when speaking of source imagery.

On -verbose:
-verbose is on by default, it has no effect on the output from -? or -help or -mydoghasfleas for that matter, which all produce the same result in displaying the help contents. -brief and -nogui simply override -verbose. With -verbose (or no switch specified at all) Imagetool runs in a window like this:

When you specify -brief Imagetool runs in a window like this:

-nogui of course results in no visual output at all. -verbose requires a click of the "Done" button to dismiss the Imagetool dialog once the process has finished, -brief and -nogui both proceed to the next command (in a batch file for example) without any action on the part of the user.

EDIT: The point to take away from the -verbose discussion is that in a batch file -verbose (or failure to specify an overriding switch) requires an action from the user before the batch file will proceed to the next command where -brief and -nogui will proceed to the next command without any user input.

Jim