Good Freeware bad for business?

[jbertelson]

Freeware and Payware

I have payware products, but have reverted to using only freeware airplanes and scenery. However, I do use payware development tools. Money is not an object, rather it seems that I enjoy using the freeware aircraft, partly because they are not impossible to get off the ground in less than 5 minutes. And I enjoy the challenge of changing the panels and redoing the paint job.

I develop only freeware, because I do not want the stresses of maintaining the product. Currently, I am due to update my visual landclass catalog, PolyView, for FSX. But it is on hold for completion of my gauge XML editor, SuxPad. (Softies Unintelligible XML Pad) I hope other people besides me are interested in a project oriented product, with a lot of bells and whistles, freeware of course, but designed for freeware and payware users.

I guess I support both freeware and payware, but only do freeware myself.

 

[Wildfire563]

I've got to say I'm a bit bothered by the poll associated with this thread. It is my opinion that there is no moral imperative here, and this "we SHOULD develop as much freeware as possible" or "Good software SHOULD have its price" are ridiculous concepts.

In my case, I appreciate the fact that people put hundreds and thousands of hours into their products, and if they want to give it away, thank you. If they want to charge for it and it is something I want, I will pay for it. In return for the kindness of all the developers out there, I am doing my best to do my part in helping people use MSFS, and doing as much development as I can. I hope to someday be in a position to make some money for my efforts, but for the time being, I am very happy to give the software that I develop away. For me, it's the least I can do for all the people who have fed my addiction here.

I think a better poll, if it really matters would ask, "I like to develop freeware" and "I plan on charging for the addons I create". And for users, "I like to use freeware" and "I will pay for good software", and allow users to select multiple answers.

If there is anything that anyone SHOULD do, is, don't expect to not get yelled at if you charge for substandard work and then refuse to give dissatisfied users their money back. I can tell you I won't be back if you do.

 

[bertvk]

In a german forum we have a discussion about the freeware-payware-problem:

Actually I think that freeware with payware-niveau is bad for business. Why don't we take money for the things we created in hundreds and thousands of hours?
The users begin to expect impossible things when buying payware. And why shouldn't they if the freeware they get is allready on a professional level?

What do you guys think?

I like payware when it's good quality and the price is reasonable.
However many freeware products are often better than the payware ones.
As long as the product gets the FS "being better " I support both, Freeware and Payware.

Bert
www.worldoffs.com

 

[marty]

payware / freeware

I have watched this disscussion and agree with many of the setiments expressed here. It seems to come to three main threads, Fredom of the idividual to charge for thier porduct or offer it as freeware, The talent, ability of the idividual to be able to offer a product as freeware and the security of a developer over thier product.

I have been posting freeware aircraft models for only a few months, at first they were quite poor, as I learned my offerings got a little better. Even so I have allready seen one of my aircraft posted on a different site, by another person claiming it as there own. At first I was a bit flatered until I thought about it for a while and then I became anoyed, this must be doubly so for those who's lively hood is a affected.

As an individual it takes an alarming number of hours to make a model. The detail expected, even for freeware, is very high. The model I am making at persent is very close to payware standard but as others have said the issues of distribution, fee collection, and advertising make payware near impossible for most like me.

I think there may be an opotunity for existing Payware publishers to take advantage of this, offer pospective freeware developers an oportunity to publish within the Publishers house, not unlike a book bublisher. The experinced people with the publisher can ensure the final polish, not unlike an editor.

Thanks and Cheers all Marty

 

[Wildfire563]

Hi Marty,
Have you tried contacting a publisher like Flight1 or SimMarket? Do they ask too much?

 

[marty]

They already exist

I thought from the discussion of distribution and fee collecting etc that these publishers do not exist. thanks for puting me straight.

 

[Francois]

Marty, actually there are quite a few publishers who are constantly looking for talented designers (heck, even Microsoft does!)... Flight1 was mentioned, simMarket can sell your products if you want, FSAddon.com offers more extensive services, like Just Flight, Aerosoft and many others.

 

[DoubleBounce]

My 2 cents.

I am new to this hobby and have purchased some payware that I know will never be used.

I am still learning the tools that I have downloaded and for beginners like me that have no real idea of what's needed freeware is a blessing.

I have found that the try-before-buy system is great. I do not mind paying a reasonable amount for software if it will do the job for me.

Abacus is a good example. I have downloaded several aircraft that I did not purchase simply because I was not satisfied with them. Ten dollars saved is ten dollars that can be used elsewhere.

~~ Dale ~~

 

[TrebuTa]

I think good freeware is only a stimulance for the payware community which will cause the developers to seek for more and better features.

I think good freeware is a good thing.

 

[DocMoriarty]

I think good freeware can render this or that payware package useless but every add on, be it freeware or not, increases the long term motivation of playing FS and therefore in the long run every add on is a plus for everyone.

 

[rexgrant]

I think good freeware can render this or that payware package useless but every add on, be it freeware or not, increases the long term motivation of playing FS and therefore in the long run every add on is a plus for everyone.

Hi all,
As a user of add-ons for Flight simulator and not very good at sorting out problems,my tendancy is to buy payware in the hope that it as been properly produced and packaged for easy installment.the majority of of users of flight sims are like me.Most problems I have had in the past as been with freeware.
There is a place for both but the user should not be used as a beta tester without been told.When FSX first came out some of the well known producers did this.and expected paying customers to spend many hours trying to sort out the bugs.
But to the clever people who spend 100's of hours building addons for free we user's should be prepared to give feed back to help.
Best regards.
Rex

 

[Andrew]

As a kid I played around with Lego a lot of my time, and I had to be forced out of the house into the sun. So no wonder I love to use 3DSMax or gmax...the ultimate tools for construction. To be quite honest I started developing scenery (for Fly II) just in order to make a more detailed scenery for myself in Norway. Regardless which simulator I have used, my country has most of the time been ignored. So there was only one thing to do, fix it myself. After much time and labour (and feedback from friends) I started to understand there was a "market" there...people asking me to upload it as freeware. So I did, and still enjoy being a freeware developer that shares his work with the community. I have gotten many questions asking me why I do not go payware, people think the quality of my work is "payware standard"...whatever that means

What keep me from going payware is that I can easily see I would never make a notable income from it. And seeing how forums are today (I stay much lower than I used to) whith all this whining and pathetic so-called grown-ups behaving as kids adding to the kids...nope. I prefer to keep my soul away from having to be a support guy which is "nice and patient" on the outside while fuming inside. I do not have time for such, nor do I want to. And I can`t stand the modern business race.

As you can see I have definitively made my choice

 

[radialronnie]

I think a great problem is that any fellow can scrap together a piece of junk and want some money for it.
I think there are great payware addons that are worth the money (if a person can afford it)

 

[FirmamentFX]

This thread is fascinating reading. Personally I feel that there is a market for both freeware and payware.

I have NO problem with paying for software if it is worth it - there is some truly horrendous payware out there (I am refraining from naming any ), but also some awesome payware (FlyTampa is but one of several).

For me, the arguement that "it will be cracked anyway, so what is the point of me paying money for it, I would rather just not have it" is slightly disingenuous. Yes, it will be cracked, but so will most software in the world! And if everyone takes that attitude, most software houses will eventually go out of business... So, that's NO products released then.

As a simple example - I use 3DS Max and Maya Ultimate a lot (in my non-FS life), and I pay a fortune to Autodesk for subscriptions, which gives me the latest releases (often ahead of the commercial releases, and occasionally for point releases there are only subscription releases). I then go round to a friend's house, who just dabbles in 3D, and guess what? HE has the latest releases along with thousands of pounds of plugins, and he hasn't paid for any of it! Does it make me angry? YES! But, will it stop me paying for subscriptions? NO.

I realise that this is a slightly irrelevant comparison - apps that cost thousands versus FS addons that generally cost $100 or less, but I think the point still holds.

Payware has a market because of the quality of the addons that are developed. The support is often not *quite* there, but I think that anyone who uses addons for FS does accept that even "professional" FS developers generally do it in their spare time.

I also think that there is a market for quality for freeware because the guys and gals who develop freeware do it for the love of it, and more often than not develop something that would NEVER be developed by a payware developer because it is too much of a niche market. For example, I simply can't imagine there is a payware market for RAF Cranwell, but the freeware addon enhances my FS world immeasurably because I fly around there a lot! I wouldn't buy Cranwell, whereas I *would* buy Heathrow or Gatwick or or or....

Cheers!

Martin

 

[ccartmel]

Payware often a disappointment

Hi all,
I use about 20% payware aircraft in my setup here, although 'in the skies' as AI probably 90% of the traffic.
I have in the main been disappointed however as some payware seems to have been produced to a quality far below both professional and general 'freeware' standards. One example which occurs often is the claim of an FSX upgrade to a FS2004 offering. After paying the fee I found that it compiled traffic files to FS9 format thus disabling my custom FSX AI. I reported this on their support forum and was met by denials from the moderator/support responder. Another contributor was actually quite offensive. A direct e-mail to their support team elicited the reply that I was quite right, the output file was not to FSX standards. I do not therefore know what FSX compatibilty means as the interface to the previous product worked OK in FSX. I feel cheated by this company who do not seem to understand the FSX specifics, just out for a quick buck.
Another payware product, claimed that their VFR scenery had night lighting. I accordingly bought the whole set only to find this was untrue. Many promises were made by the company as to delivery schedules which were never kept, as well as 'spoonfulls of sugar' to keep us happy, again not delivered. Excuses were based around microsoft's technologies.

Payware is often far more complicated to justify the expense and thus entails more issues which some companies who are not 'enthusiasts' do not understand, while freeware is a take it or leave it scenario but as it is usually created by enthusiasts the quality is usually of a high standard.

I believe that a substantial amount of payware is poorly tested and supported, an issue not usually applicable to freeware.

 

[Horst18519]

Now, this discussion really has become a classic.

Interesting thing that - since I started the topic quite some time ago - I myself went from freeware to payware, but surprisingly I would now say that freeware is indeed important at high levels. For me with my commercial projects good freeware keeps reminding me to do "as real as it gets" all the time.

I would agree that this is not found in every payware addon, but please let's not point to certain developers or distributers of pay- or freeware, that can be discussed directly with them.

I hope this thread will see even more discussion and arguments in that matter.

 

[FirmamentFX]

Yes - I am very glad that the thread has not descended into a series of posts by people trying to justify downloading cracked software, which is often the case in threads like this!

ccartmel - I agree that when promises are made but not followed through and when "trading standards" descriptions are not met, then it is horribly annoying. I don't think that discounts all payware as a rip off though...

Again, I will say that MANY freeware projects would never make viable commercial products, because the market is simply not there for a lot of smaller airfields / more obscure aircraft.

There are however a lot of products (Ultimate Terrain / FSGenesis - which isn't all freeware after all etc), where license fees for the source data has to be paid for, and therefore could not be free...

Martin

 

[ccartmel]

martin,
I agree with your comments, I went a bit over the top perhaps,(have now edited the message) but it was to make the point that payware does not automatically mean that it is superior to freeware and has it's own set of problems. To put the record straight as regards the UK VFR product - IT IS EXCELLENT - and the amount of work which must have gone into it is 'mind boggling'. The price I paid was well justified.

I am working on a program to provide a FSX database management system which will allow all AI on a system to be recorded as well as aircraft and airport information with full management facilities. It is going slowly as I have had to learn VB.NET and the work to be done is unknown. It will be freeware as I both wish to give something back to the community, but don't have the time to provide 24 hour support (won't need it though )

 

[Simon853]

Good freeware bad for business??

Isn't this a bit like rock stars complaining that there's some great bands giving their music away for free on MyFace?

Payware will only suffer if the same product or niche is catered for for free. If I released a payware F-99 SuperMegaFighter with 3 paintjobs only to find it ignored in favour of a free SuperMegaFighter (A *and* B model with extending gizmo and retractable wotsit) and 10 paintjobs going for free, that'd only reflect on the fact that I need to up my game if I want to make money.

The only way good freeware is bad for business is if you're content with being able to do a poor job and expect to get paid for it.

Si

 

[FirmamentFX]

Heh - I wasn't having a go Charlie... Just trying to offer an alternative viewpoint

I agree that "payware" doesn't necessarily mean "superior" - I have bought addons that have disappointed me no end, and also found freeware that adds exponentially to the FS experience.

Going OT briefly, but still sticking with the freeware / open source thing, I have been a bit disappointed that the market for FlightGear hasn't taken off (as it were...). That looks like a fantastic open source sim effort.

Back on topic now

Your DBMS sounds very interesting! I am slowly working on an aircraft addon, which is taking me a long time. It too will be freeware, mainly for the same reasons - I think there is a fanatstic FS community and it feels good to give something back, but also because I don't want to *have* to provide support. When developers do charge for a product and then don't respond to emails for a week, then that is very annoying (but also as I stated above, most payware developers do it in their spare time too...).

This is where "middlemen" like Aerosoft can come in useful - they have a support framework in place already...

M