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Hi Josh
please do just if you and your cousin convenient with. I don't want anybody get trouble because of this. Moreover I already had many photo from internet, I just need to draw it as texture. Thanks
kalong
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MV-22B Osprey
- Thread starter kalong
- Start date
Hi Josh
please do just if you and your cousin convenient with. I don't want anybody get trouble because of this. Moreover I already had many photo from internet, I just need to draw it as texture. Thanks
kalong
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Hi all
I have good news and bad news
Good news is Rob finished his VTOL gauge, now work better than previous version, I can call it close enough to flight manual. everything I think is ready for beta.
Bad news is I have another busy work (real Work), I need to attend a short course in 2 weeks (start next weeks). I can't do any on my project at that time (time and thought must focus on study).
I can sent a beta for test by now, but I can not respond or give any advice to beta tester if there a problem and I won't that happen. so I decide to postpone again this beta till early next month (September)
I'm Very sorry about that.
Kalong
I have good news and bad news
Good news is Rob finished his VTOL gauge, now work better than previous version, I can call it close enough to flight manual. everything I think is ready for beta.
Bad news is I have another busy work (real Work), I need to attend a short course in 2 weeks (start next weeks). I can't do any on my project at that time (time and thought must focus on study).
I can sent a beta for test by now, but I can not respond or give any advice to beta tester if there a problem and I won't that happen. so I decide to postpone again this beta till early next month (September)
I'm Very sorry about that.
Kalong
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Kalong, I would be willing to test your Beta model if it is available.
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An important note for beta-users ....
The following problem may occur:
Once you are airborne and have converted to normal flight mode, the "flaps" (i.e. nacelles) doesn't appear to work anymore; so you can't convert back to VTOL mode.
Remedy for now:
Make sure that "aircraft stress causes damage" is UNchecked.
Note: In P3D, this function might still be active even when "Ignore crashes and damage" is set (the box remains checked, but greyed out).
So you must first set "Detect crashes and damage" before you can uncheck "aircraft stress causes damage".
Probable cause:
FSX/P3D appears to have a built-in (non-configurable) protection against manipulating "flaps" at high thrust values, and sees that as a reason for "aircraft stress".
Independant of the stress caused by flapsextension at too high airspeed (which can be / is configured in the aircraft.cfg)
Rob
The following problem may occur:
Once you are airborne and have converted to normal flight mode, the "flaps" (i.e. nacelles) doesn't appear to work anymore; so you can't convert back to VTOL mode.
Remedy for now:
Make sure that "aircraft stress causes damage" is UNchecked.
Note: In P3D, this function might still be active even when "Ignore crashes and damage" is set (the box remains checked, but greyed out).
So you must first set "Detect crashes and damage" before you can uncheck "aircraft stress causes damage".
Probable cause:
FSX/P3D appears to have a built-in (non-configurable) protection against manipulating "flaps" at high thrust values, and sees that as a reason for "aircraft stress".
Independant of the stress caused by flapsextension at too high airspeed (which can be / is configured in the aircraft.cfg)
Rob
Hi all,
Rob Barendregt put me on to this thread after I contacted him directly about a problem I was having with his VTOL/Hover gauge I was using with the Alphasim/Virtavia MV-22 and P3D.
I'm very impressed! I've read all the postings and, judging by the comments and the images, the MV-22B that you, kalong, and Rob are developing is head & shoulders better than the Alphasim/Virtavia version. Particularly with regard to the instrument panel and the VC as a whole, which in the Virtavia sim is vestigial to say the least.
I can't wait for you to release to result of all your work!
Best wishes and godspeed.
Mark
Rob Barendregt put me on to this thread after I contacted him directly about a problem I was having with his VTOL/Hover gauge I was using with the Alphasim/Virtavia MV-22 and P3D.
I'm very impressed! I've read all the postings and, judging by the comments and the images, the MV-22B that you, kalong, and Rob are developing is head & shoulders better than the Alphasim/Virtavia version. Particularly with regard to the instrument panel and the VC as a whole, which in the Virtavia sim is vestigial to say the least.
I can't wait for you to release to result of all your work!
Best wishes and godspeed.
Mark
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- 938
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I was like you. I only have Alphasim v-22. I don't like much with model and gauge, but VTOL capability is promising. then I starting to develop on my own. learning modeling, SDK, xml code and C++ from zero and scratch. only have limit in skill using photoshop.
one by one people helping me and absolutely this forum very useful and lot of information.
Thank you for your patient and support.
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Hi,
Testing the autopilot of the Osprey; she holds well
I was wondering if anyone knows where to obtain a copy of the pilot's operating handbook or flight manual for the MV-22B. I have searched far and wide (online) but have found no trace of one yet. Would it be classified material, or am I just not looking hard enough? I have found lots of other documentation, but really a lot of it is just about the politics involved with the aircraft rather than the systems etc. I have located some docs containing specs, but nothing in depth.
Cheers,
Testing the autopilot of the Osprey; she holds well
I was wondering if anyone knows where to obtain a copy of the pilot's operating handbook or flight manual for the MV-22B. I have searched far and wide (online) but have found no trace of one yet. Would it be classified material, or am I just not looking hard enough? I have found lots of other documentation, but really a lot of it is just about the politics involved with the aircraft rather than the systems etc. I have located some docs containing specs, but nothing in depth.
Cheers,
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- 1,192
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cool then....
The V-22 Engine is a constant speed engine. Once you go from Ground/Idle to Fly position on the control panel, the Engine Speed will go to 98-105% N2 and stay there. There will be some fluctuations between flight envelopes, but those are controlled by the Flight Control Computer (FCC). So in an essence, you can't control engine speed, you can only control rotor speed/torque. On your model I can see engine speed moving up and down with TCL inputs. When you pull up on the collective/power lever, rotor pitch increases and you get more thrust....while engine speed remains and Nr increases. Under some circumstances, as when you descend rapidly, you can overspeed the engine (rotors speed up driving engine speed up), at that time the FCC will command a power reduction to the engine and you will see an N2 drop. You can also overtorque the engine, for example, by commencing a fast descent on vertical mode, and then pulling on the collective too hard….on which case engine will overheat and lose power, leading to either a hard landing or a crash.
Not sure how easy it would be to simulate a similar engine control logic, probably more similar to an FS Helicopter model.
Secondly, it would be super cool to simulate an engine out condition (or OEI – One Engine Inoperative), where you have to initiate an immediate forward descent and land tilted at 60degrees (with some forward speed).
Your flight model is so much better than the legacy MilViz V-22. I had a sudden pitch increase while switching to helicopter mode, but it was probably due to converting at too high of a speed. On the real V-22, very little pitch trim is typically required as the FCC keeps attitude steady. In any case your flight controls are excellent!
I absolutely love your model.
The V-22 Engine is a constant speed engine. Once you go from Ground/Idle to Fly position on the control panel, the Engine Speed will go to 98-105% N2 and stay there. There will be some fluctuations between flight envelopes, but those are controlled by the Flight Control Computer (FCC). So in an essence, you can't control engine speed, you can only control rotor speed/torque. On your model I can see engine speed moving up and down with TCL inputs. When you pull up on the collective/power lever, rotor pitch increases and you get more thrust....while engine speed remains and Nr increases. Under some circumstances, as when you descend rapidly, you can overspeed the engine (rotors speed up driving engine speed up), at that time the FCC will command a power reduction to the engine and you will see an N2 drop. You can also overtorque the engine, for example, by commencing a fast descent on vertical mode, and then pulling on the collective too hard….on which case engine will overheat and lose power, leading to either a hard landing or a crash.
Not sure how easy it would be to simulate a similar engine control logic, probably more similar to an FS Helicopter model.
Secondly, it would be super cool to simulate an engine out condition (or OEI – One Engine Inoperative), where you have to initiate an immediate forward descent and land tilted at 60degrees (with some forward speed).
Your flight model is so much better than the legacy MilViz V-22. I had a sudden pitch increase while switching to helicopter mode, but it was probably due to converting at too high of a speed. On the real V-22, very little pitch trim is typically required as the FCC keeps attitude steady. In any case your flight controls are excellent!
I absolutely love your model.
Hi David,
My first reaction on your comment (and I'm sure Maryadi will jump in if he doesn't agree with my reply):
From what I know of the V22, I think you are spot-on as to the constant-speed engines remarks.
And engine-wise, simulating the V22 in FSX/P3D would probably be better using the FS helo-turbine engine model instead of the turbo-prop engine model.
However, the obvious problem (in FSX/P3D) is to simulate both a reasonable VTOL (helo mode) and normal flight (airplane mode); and a fluent transition (in conversion mode) in between.
Unfortunately, there's no way to switch dynamically between the two engine-mode definitions; so, when trying to simulate all modes in one model, the turbo-prop engine flight model just works best; and overall gives the best results looking at the flight (not: engines) behaviour in terms of how the V22 performs in the air during VTOL - CONV - APLN mode v.v....... IMO.
Secondly (given the first restriction of being bound to one engine-type model), there is the restriction that it's impossible to have a dynamic (and fluent) changeover between the FS-FDE flight model (APLN) and a gauge-coded flightmodel (in CONV - VTOL mode). The best we can do is try to minimise the effect, mainly visible in required pitch trim change.
One thing that will help, is that Maryadi and I allready decided to introduce a fully contiguous control of the nacelles (using "AileronTrim" axis commands) instead of the abrupt (discrete) "flaps" control we now use in the beta.
No excuse ...LoL, just trying to explain the fundamental issues here in FSX/P3D when trying to simulate a unique aircraft like the V22 ...
As to the second point (OEI condition): this surely is on our list of things-to-do.
Especially the "gearbox" function, where the V22 is able to temporarily fly on one engine with both proprotors still working.
As to comparing the overall flight model of our V22 model with that of another designer:
I have learned in 15+ years of making flightsim addons , never to say that my work (and/or Maryadi's) is better or not then someone else's, without trying it myself.
So if you feel that "this one is so much better then the legacy Milviz V-22": thanks for the compliment; but since I don't know this Milviz V-22, I can't / won't comment .....LoL
That said: thanks very much for your remarks on the beta.
These make a lot of sense, but I hope I also outlined the absolute restrictions on what's possible to simulate a V22 in an FSX/P3D environment.
Meaning it will allways remain a compromise; but the problem with "compromising" however, is that where/how one compromises usually is a matter of personal opinion ... Hope you understand what I mean ...
Best regards, Rob
My first reaction on your comment (and I'm sure Maryadi will jump in if he doesn't agree with my reply):
From what I know of the V22, I think you are spot-on as to the constant-speed engines remarks.
And engine-wise, simulating the V22 in FSX/P3D would probably be better using the FS helo-turbine engine model instead of the turbo-prop engine model.
However, the obvious problem (in FSX/P3D) is to simulate both a reasonable VTOL (helo mode) and normal flight (airplane mode); and a fluent transition (in conversion mode) in between.
Unfortunately, there's no way to switch dynamically between the two engine-mode definitions; so, when trying to simulate all modes in one model, the turbo-prop engine flight model just works best; and overall gives the best results looking at the flight (not: engines) behaviour in terms of how the V22 performs in the air during VTOL - CONV - APLN mode v.v....... IMO.
Secondly (given the first restriction of being bound to one engine-type model), there is the restriction that it's impossible to have a dynamic (and fluent) changeover between the FS-FDE flight model (APLN) and a gauge-coded flightmodel (in CONV - VTOL mode). The best we can do is try to minimise the effect, mainly visible in required pitch trim change.
One thing that will help, is that Maryadi and I allready decided to introduce a fully contiguous control of the nacelles (using "AileronTrim" axis commands) instead of the abrupt (discrete) "flaps" control we now use in the beta.
No excuse ...LoL, just trying to explain the fundamental issues here in FSX/P3D when trying to simulate a unique aircraft like the V22 ...
As to the second point (OEI condition): this surely is on our list of things-to-do.
Especially the "gearbox" function, where the V22 is able to temporarily fly on one engine with both proprotors still working.
As to comparing the overall flight model of our V22 model with that of another designer:
I have learned in 15+ years of making flightsim addons , never to say that my work (and/or Maryadi's) is better or not then someone else's, without trying it myself.
So if you feel that "this one is so much better then the legacy Milviz V-22": thanks for the compliment; but since I don't know this Milviz V-22, I can't / won't comment .....LoL
That said: thanks very much for your remarks on the beta.
These make a lot of sense, but I hope I also outlined the absolute restrictions on what's possible to simulate a V22 in an FSX/P3D environment.
Meaning it will allways remain a compromise; but the problem with "compromising" however, is that where/how one compromises usually is a matter of personal opinion ... Hope you understand what I mean ...
Best regards, Rob
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Hi david and all
engine RPM, N1, N2 for turboprop
I think this was FSX/P3D limitation, in aircraft.cfg propeller set as constant speed and set variable pitch for rotor, but the implementation on sim is differently, speed still have fluctuation depend on throttle position. so if I want to set it as constant, I need to code it as simplified manipulation not base on aircraft.cfg anymore. from my knowledge (now) it will take more time to implemented it.
the engine behavior just like default turboprop behavior. it has some delay to get engine at desire power and some other things Pinkjr explain. by now you only get what FSX/P3D limitation give, not yet real Osprey does. Rob starting already to implemented some limitation like Vortex Ring State (special feature button ON) you will get uncontrolled roll and stall if you at VTOL mode, speed below 25 kts and rate of descent more that 2000 ft/min. absolutely will crash, but if you have enough height yo can recover it
for engine and rotor for MV-22B are very unique, I have many thing want to implemented but hit the wall of FSX/P3D limitation, so for this case, I don't have much to do and still trying.
Helo-turbine vs turboprop
real MV-22B are turboshaft engine similar to helo-turbine (as helicopter) but it similar too with turboprop (as Airplane).
one thing to be noted that VTOL mode have small portion from entire of flight (only take off/landing, hover). so the closest I can implement are using turboprop engine. with limitation of visual (animation and render) such rotation not like helo-turbine (start-stop)
One engine INOP
we will going there if time came, I need to reconfigure the engine (setting, animation, render) with new code, and new procedure of course. that lot of work to do. so I leave it for later time.
Milviz-V22
I just know if there available Milviz V-22
compromise
different people, different point of view base on his knowledge. I very often look into manual, make it simplified and implemented. the tricky thing is "make simplified" that maybe what your mean "compromise". Although the manual already 10 years old.
Me and Rob was working on assume, we are not MV-22B engineer or Pilot. so maybe that answer "what you mean".
Big thanks to Rob that want give us a free the latest his VTOL gauge, so you all can feel (not real) how fly with MV-22B.
Best Regards, Kalong
additional edit : correction word
engine RPM, N1, N2 for turboprop
I think this was FSX/P3D limitation, in aircraft.cfg propeller set as constant speed and set variable pitch for rotor, but the implementation on sim is differently, speed still have fluctuation depend on throttle position. so if I want to set it as constant, I need to code it as simplified manipulation not base on aircraft.cfg anymore. from my knowledge (now) it will take more time to implemented it.
the engine behavior just like default turboprop behavior. it has some delay to get engine at desire power and some other things Pinkjr explain. by now you only get what FSX/P3D limitation give, not yet real Osprey does. Rob starting already to implemented some limitation like Vortex Ring State (special feature button ON) you will get uncontrolled roll and stall if you at VTOL mode, speed below 25 kts and rate of descent more that 2000 ft/min. absolutely will crash, but if you have enough height yo can recover it
for engine and rotor for MV-22B are very unique, I have many thing want to implemented but hit the wall of FSX/P3D limitation, so for this case, I don't have much to do and still trying.
Helo-turbine vs turboprop
real MV-22B are turboshaft engine similar to helo-turbine (as helicopter) but it similar too with turboprop (as Airplane).
one thing to be noted that VTOL mode have small portion from entire of flight (only take off/landing, hover). so the closest I can implement are using turboprop engine. with limitation of visual (animation and render) such rotation not like helo-turbine (start-stop)
One engine INOP
we will going there if time came, I need to reconfigure the engine (setting, animation, render) with new code, and new procedure of course. that lot of work to do. so I leave it for later time.
Milviz-V22
I just know if there available Milviz V-22
compromise
different people, different point of view base on his knowledge. I very often look into manual, make it simplified and implemented. the tricky thing is "make simplified" that maybe what your mean "compromise". Although the manual already 10 years old.
Me and Rob was working on assume, we are not MV-22B engineer or Pilot. so maybe that answer "what you mean".
Big thanks to Rob that want give us a free the latest his VTOL gauge, so you all can feel (not real) how fly with MV-22B.
Best Regards, Kalong
additional edit : correction word
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