my DC-8 Project

[Xpand]

Ah, so you basically realigned them frame by frame, huh? What I'm interested is in the gmax/3ds max animation not the FS animation. Only when I used "look at" constrains it didn't work in FSX but worked perfectly in 3ds max.
I hope these two pictures show the problem (keyframed from 0 to 100 with):
Frame 100

Frame 70

 

[Mr.FaosFX]

Oh, I see now.

Move your pivots to where I have shown you.

The blueish arrows indicate where these arms should link too, if your animating the way I see it, one arm should not be linked to the other or you'll have the pivot issues your experiencing.

When you animate, you'll have to align them tho but careful placing of a dummy point and linking it to the part will help you to align it bulls eye which is what I do if I want precision.

By linking each arm to its own parent, they will maintain the ROOT pivot and you only need to align them during the animation so that they "kiss" each other, again place dummy points at the very center of the tips and link it to the part to help in the alignment proccess...get back to me if it works out for you.

Also, not frame by frame, that could be tedious......if your animating from 0 to 100 your always going to have oscillation in animations that travel and pivot at the same time at say half-way through the animation, you must counter act this effect by re-aligning half way say at keyframe 50 then repeat and you may have to drop a key in for 25 and 75 as well and it should work as intended. Even the space shuttle suffered from orbital oscillations which required daily rocket firings to maintain orbit eccentricity within limits, otherwise they would slowly drop out of orbit =P

Also, next time for these matters use a private message as people who come here, drop in expecting a DC8 update, I will be happy to help via private messages and would also keep your project from exposure...

 

[Mr.FaosFX]

After observing several DC8 photographs, I came to realize the landing gear shaft needs to be reduced by about 20% in circumference, oops. Well, that's what happens when you do guess work...i'm too tired to continue work on this so good night guys.

Zzzzzzz

 

[Michael2]

Here it is. This is a 50 series DC-8, not as far along as yours. I'm about to start on the landing gear, so your recent posts are very timely. I don't think a single part is quite finished -- I keep starting new pieces to keep my interest up.

I hope you don't mind my posting this in your thread.

 

[hairyspin]

Rather good modelling Michael!

@Xpand - you can use Look-At constraints to build animations, but they must be reduced to keyframes before exporting to FSX. Here's an old thread from SOH that explains how

 

[Xpand]

Thanks for your help. You're right. I should have PM'd you. Sorry.

 

[Heretic]

If you two guys combine your efforts, you can achieve more in less time.

Just sayin'.

 

[Mr.FaosFX]

Here it is. This is a 50 series DC-8, not as far along as yours. I'm about to start on the landing gear, so your recent posts are very timely. I don't think a single part is quite finished -- I keep starting new pieces to keep my interest up.

I hope you don't mind my posting this in your thread.

OMG she is beautiful!! No problem posting in this thread, as a matter of fact if you want to post updates on that beautiful baby, you can do so here, I would not mind, it would build the suspense up and keep everyone hooked!!

This makes me happy, like a Christmas gift to know that there are two individuals working on these birds, about time I would say, the FS community didn't have high quality models for so long and now, that is about to change. ;-]

Your as far along as I am with the exception of the landing gears of course which, I will be working on today. I can help you but I don't want you or I to inter-change parts as some may suggest. I can however, send you documentation that I have and I have lots but you probably do as well. For example, I have no problem, giving you all the details as to how I did the steerable nose gear with out using c_wheel. The modeling should be done entirely by the developer who started the project, to keep learning experience high as well as interest on the project. :-] HJG will be shocked when they see this, lol!

 

[Heretic]

This makes me happy, like a Christmas gift to know that there are two individuals working on these birds, about time I would say, the FS community didn't have high quality models for so long and now, that is about to change. ;-]

...provided both of them finish their respective renditions.

 

[Mr.FaosFX]

...provided both of them finish their respective renditions.

He, he...of course.

 

[Mr.FaosFX]

Update!

Modification of the wing and wing root is progressing well today. It seems that this was a rather necessary modification...observing DC8 photographs in the process it appears to be having no impact at all on the bottom side.

This is an scenario I encountered a lot with many of my fantasy aircraft. I designed the wing root and when I placed the landing gears, I found I needed to modify the wing root and wings in order to make them "fit" because making them smaller, was not an option for me.

If I had started work on the flaps and encountered this scenario, it would have been a disaster...

The modification will continue today.

 

[Mr.FaosFX]

Update!

Everything is looking good now, just some more tweaking at the wing root vertices.

Now, I'm moving to the wing to correct that smoothing problem where the smaller doors are, I'll continue to tweak as I go but finally, the big gear assembly is nicely tucked away inside. :-]

The fatness at the back is my main concern for the next run but that may just be because I'm zoomed in a great deal.

 

[EdGeneer]

This aircraft project looks so nice... Just watching your progress and the quality your incorporating, is making me fall in love with the dc8!!!

 

[Mr.FaosFX]

This aircraft project looks so nice... Just watching your progress and the quality your incorporating, is making me fall in love with the dc8!!!

Thank you and I'm glad it has that influence on you

I am done with the modification work for this run, I still have more tweaks to do but here is how it turned out.

Looks like I didn't do anything to it but moved a heck of a lot of vertices a round and fixed up about 8 shading errors, what a nightmare, glad its all over for now.

I'm really tired and need to rest, starting another week of work tomorrow, bleh.

Good night everyone.

 

[Mr.FaosFX]

Update!

I just got done with the final tweaks and position of vertices and precise snapping at key locations. Everything is currently mirrored at this stage and will remain like this until I think it is safe to throw the mirror modifier on it.

I still have to animate the gears again and I may need to adjust parts as necessarily for animation but it should all look good in the end.

The 23938 polys that you see on the image refers to the total current polygon count of the entire model, even with the full new gear assemblies mirrored, I really knocked out a heck of a lot of polys on that remodeling work, basically the polys that were taken out from the tires where invested in the hydraulic wire assembly with some left to spare, so the operation was a success, I still managed to keep polygon count low while adding lots more detail, good stuff!

To cover what I did on the modification run; adjusted the bottom size of wing root, adjust size of bottom size of wing which connects to wing root, adjusted door panel that connects to landing gear shaft, moved landing gear doors down and made them thicker, adjusted landing gear shaft position, and other minor details (vertex positioning and snapping at key locations to cover up open areas) landing gear addition/modifications; remodeled landing gear shaft, tires, struts, added hydraulic wire assembly, reduced polygon count on tires, adjusted compression animation and other details as covered by previous posts.

I can say I am happy with how the landing gears look now and I am happy with how the nose gear turned out as well, with the final details added to the entire landing gear assembly, I will do one last check of the overall model before attempting to add anything else.

Keep tuned for updates as usual.

Later folks.

 

[Michael2]

OMG she is beautiful!! No problem posting in this thread, as a matter of fact if you want to post updates on that beautiful baby, you can do so here, I would not mind, it would build the suspense up and keep everyone hooked!!

This makes me happy, like a Christmas gift to know that there are two individuals working on these birds, about time I would say, the FS community didn't have high quality models for so long and now, that is about to change. ;-]

Your as far along as I am with the exception of the landing gears of course which, I will be working on today. I can help you but I don't want you or I to inter-change parts as some may suggest. I can however, send you documentation that I have and I have lots but you probably do as well. For example, I have no problem, giving you all the details as to how I did the steerable nose gear with out using c_wheel. The modeling should be done entirely by the developer who started the project, to keep learning experience high as well as interest on the project. :-] HJG will be shocked when they see this, lol!

Thanks for your kind words and encouragement. I'm happy to post the odd update here, although progress is slow as I work full time and have a family with two small children. I wouldn't want to exchange parts either, as I am learning as I go along and I can only learn this kind of thing by doing. I would be also happy to exchange ideas and information -- I have accumulated a lot of documentation, primarily with respect to systems, engine and flight modelling. I should also tell you that if I am able to create something good enough, my project may end up as payware -- I don't know if you would care one way or the other. I will definitely be doing a VC.

BTW, your model looks fantastic and I have really benefited from this thread. I had my fuselage, wings and tail surfaces already mostly done when I first saw your posts -- I would have done some things differently if I were to start from scratch now.

Here's a real world gear retraction video, while on the subject of gear animation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnvpyP1SgD4

 

[Mr.FaosFX]

Thanks for your kind words and encouragement. I'm happy to post the odd update here, although progress is slow as I work full time and have a family with two small children. I wouldn't want to exchange parts either, as I am learning as I go along and I can only learn this kind of thing by doing. I would be also happy to exchange ideas and information -- I have accumulated a lot of documentation, primarily with respect to systems, engine and flight modelling. I should also tell you that if I am able to create something good enough, my project may end up as payware -- I don't know if you would care one way or the other. I will definitely be doing a VC.

BTW, your model looks fantastic and I have really benefited from this thread. I had my fuselage, wings and tail surfaces already mostly done when I first saw your posts -- I would have done some things differently if I were to start from scratch now.

Here's a real world gear retraction video, while on the subject of gear animation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnvpyP1SgD4

Thanks for your kind words as well :-] Actually, my project has become a part of the Historic Jetliner Group and I will be doing a full VC for it as well and I will be making the entire series just not only the 70s so I'll be on this for quite some time I shall say.

I've seen that video but it doesn't give away much detail.

One of the issues I'm having at the moment with animation of the landing gears is, I have no idea how it looks in the stowed position. Previously, I did this by having the parts go through each other since no one would notice it once stowed but now, I am discontent with this idea and I want to have them work like the real thing or close to it as possible.

When I animate my assembly, it seems impossible for the linkage to pivot and maintain that angle it is in. I believe however that the swivel connected to the main shaft is a universal link that not only pivots left and right by turns on an axis as well, I cannot confirm this however.

It's mostly all trial and error at the moment and i'm seriously considering investing $100 in a gear parts break down I saw in a site which was provided by n4gix I believe, if I get the documents, great! If I do not, then I'll just deal with it and call it a loss and spread the news here so that no one else gets ripped off.

 

[Mr.FaosFX]

I found this diagram but it does not seem to agree with the pictures I've seen.

If I would have had some good parts break down, it would have been easier but all my work, was guess work, so my gear parts are probably too big or to small within their own little world.

When the main shaft animates upwards, there is barely any space at the top for the linkage to remain connected, this is the major problem I'm having, so I will probably have to reduce the size of the main shaft and the linkage assembly in order for it to work but not sure on this yet.

The diagram shows that the DC8 landing gear linkage is "in-line" with the landing gears, when clearly photos and videos show it is at an angle to the landing gear shaft, this makes no sense really and its driving me nuts.

Here is the link to the site that has the parts break down >>> http://www.eflightmanuals.com/detail/itemList.asp?page=3&cID=4748

This next Thursday, I am making the purchase, if the guy ends up stealing my money. I'm not going to bother with legal issues, I'm just going to spread the news in this thread and hopefully everyone will spread across the net like a virus, I will document every bit of the transaction here, so you guys can keep status, everything is hold right now for DC8 development. I will not press on until I have the main landing gear working correctly and if this document may hold the key, so if I can get my hands on it, I could see where the problem is and take corrective action.

Keep tuned for Thursday, I will be documenting everything here up until I get the data I need.

*** The reason I am documenting all of this is because, according to people who have purchased from that site, they have had their money stolen...the guy contacts them via e-mail requesting some check, etc and then months and months go by and the guy never delivers anything, what a waste of time to someone that must be, I don't want anyone to have to go through a hell like that, so if it doesn't work out for me, you'll know first hand here.

Here is how the linkage and gear appear in stowed position...

notice how it is impossible for the linkage to connect to the pivot point on the main shaft, it sits way down bellow.....on previous animations, the parts just went through the shaft and everything was a mess .... funny how it looks accurate in the deployed position but will not function properly when retracted, lol.

 

[Michael2]

I also found the diagram you posted above. I believe it's the instructions for a model kit, so the parts are simplified.

I have bought manuals from eflight manuals before without any problem. The difficulty with these documents, however, is that you don't know in advance if they are going to show what you want to see or know. It's always a bit of a gamble. I have occasionally asked the vendor about the contents I need before purchasing.

BTW, I left you a PM with respect to some other documents -- they won't help with landing gear animation, but there is some other material you might find helpful for other purposes, if you don't already have it.

 

[Mr.FaosFX]

I also found the diagram you posted above. I believe it's the instructions for a model kit, so the parts are simplified.

I have bought manuals from eflight manuals before without any problem. The difficulty with these documents, however, is that you don't know in advance if they are going to show what you want to see or know. It's always a bit of a gamble. I have occasionally asked the vendor about the contents I need before purchasing.

BTW, I left you a PM with respect to some other documents -- they won't help with landing gear animation, but there is some other material you might find helpful for other purposes, if you don't already have it.

Yeah I got them, found them on the web as well. What can you say about the quality of what you bought, is it what you hoped for?