How to make windows in round tower

[F747fly]

I'm designing the Sperenberg Control tower (to test my IL-76 at a propper airfield) but I stumbled on yet another problem...
How do I make windows in the tower, when the tower is a round shape... I don't think Sketchup can handle that. Can it?

See:

(Imagine it not so diserted)

 

[Tore Stranden]

Sketchup tackles almost everything, so this tower should be no problem. You must be familiar with all the basic features of SketchUp.

Here is a youtube video showing one way to do it.

 

[charlymorton]

Circles in SketchUp are not true circles, but rather a 30-sided polygon representing a circle, with one side for every 12 degrees. Although the Sperenberg tower is not completely round, but rather a Kinder egg shape, but for the sake of the procedure below, I'll provide steps using a circular tower.

This is one way to do it:
1. Create a circle.
2. Push/pull the circle to the window height.
3. Mark the window positions.
4. Push/pull the main tower body to the top of the windows.
5. From the middle of the tower, draw a line to the tower height.
6. Draw a circle at the top of the line tower.
7. Push/pull the top circle down to the top of the windows.

 

[F747fly]

I actually did it like this, but I don't know if this is correct.

and I don't know if I should have made the following step since I don't know if the windows in Sperenberg are round.

 

[=rk=]

If you look closely at the photograph, you have your answer. Considering the fact that it is much easier to make flat panes as opposed to curved glass, the window frames that appear square are almost certainly that, in order to support the flat glass panes.

 

[GaryGB]

Although the structure under discussion appears to be a modified "ellipsoidal" shape (with round end faces but a small flat mid-section on each 'side' wall), it seems likely the methods discussed above offer ways to accurately render the (more than 1 type ?) window frames in that building ...as seen in some additional images here:

http://www.ronaldv.nl/abandoned/airfields/ge/Brandenburg/teltow.html


https://www.google.com/search?q=Sperenberg Control tower&tbm=isch&imgil=CKxMvM831uNcxM%3A%3Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fencrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AANd9GcQEo40mDSDtdduIaFAvyJ3zAdvCHUOT1BbjlKSrLPlH--lympdkgw%3B611%3B441%3BfKotegewsZPm8M%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.ronaldv.nl%252Fabandoned%252Fairfields%252Fge%252FBrandenburg%252Fteltow.html&source=iu&usg=__FQnUzfe_oDp4dV75t2USoULwBvo=&sa=X&ei=1i-9U-67AtWfyAS2rICQDg&ved=0CCoQ9QEwAw&biw=1252&bih=626#facrc=_&imgdii=5Pd1ukkJbn23OM:;twdtm-RYK7YUcM;5Pd1ukkJbn23OM:&imgrc=5Pd1ukkJbn23OM%3A;G8aoUPCuYWkjUM;http%3A%2F%2Fi282.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fkk252%2FCol_Gibbon%2Fctowergerman.jpg;http%3A%2F%2Fsimhq.com%2Fforum%2Fubbthreads.php%2Ftopics%2F3498576%2Fall%2FLuftwaffe_Control_Towers.html;524;600


PS: Analysis of the brick size used in the "chimney" might help in determining a size for the overall building:

http://all4architect.com/articles/item/34-sizes-of-bricks.html


[EDITED]

Also: Once your flat 2D outline is 'offset' and extruded ('pulled') vertically for the tower height, you may find greater precision can be achieved when "inserting" copies of the (grouped) window template object into the required wall locations by using the "Tools On Surface" Ruby plugin script by Fredo6:

http://sketchucation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=323&t=11212&hilit=Tools on Surface

http://sketchucation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=323&t=16909



...And an example of how to texture the resulting curved surface:

[END_EDIT]

Hope this helps !

GaryGB

 

[F747fly]

Hope this helps !

GaryGB

It does, thanks! Seems that becaue the windows are as previously mentioned flat and not round, they have a rounded shape above and under the window (best scene in the picture above, middle window on the first floor)

 

[F747fly]

I think it worked out pritty well. Let me know what you guys think!

 

[charlymorton]

Looks great.

 

[GaryGB]

Nice work "resurrecting" a very interesting airport building !

GaryGB

 

[kevintampa5]

for FS use, it may be too detailed. If you have a lot of models with this level of detail it may impact performance. Are you using a texture sheet or individual textures?
If it impacts performance, i would suggest the borders and door jambs/window sills be converted to textured impression rather than faces. Its not a lot but could help. The big thing would likely be drawcalls over triangle faces that impacts performance, however.

 

[=rk=]

In this particular instance, the performance threshold is going to be fairly pedestrian: the first appearance of one's first model in FSX. I didn't bother learning about how to affect frame rates until my models had grown to the size of airports and the advantage of limiting one's ability to express themselves before one is even able to perceive the consequences was not made clear in the previous post. Based on the title of the thread and the skill level of the OP, it is appropriate to recognize an important achievement, windows are indeed in a round tower, beautifully done. When he has become an accomplished scenery designer, he will probably welcome the complement of rivalrous criticism.

 

[robystar]

What do I think(You asked for it)?
I think it looks great! Especially the wall texture.
Beware though that your transparent windows will need alpha channels and possibly specular or even global environment textures as well (something Kevin forgot to mention).
On the other hand and in this respect, I do agree at the same time both with Kevin and Rick .

 

[F747fly]

What do I think(You asked for it)?
I think it looks great! Especially the wall texture.
Beware though that your transparent windows will need alpha channels and possibly specular or even global environment textures as well (something Kevin forgot to mention).
On the other hand and in this respect, I do agree at the same time both with Kevin and Rick .

Thanks! I will still have to test in fsx. I haven't actually thought of the transparent windows yet, thanks for the tip!

 

[GaryGB]

Hi again:

AFAIK, Sketchup uses "Materials" and the Sketchup default transparent glass Material apparently used above already has an Alpha channel ...used to achieve that transparency (...Arno, please correct me if I get any of this wrong!)


IIUC, texture images imported for use with Sketchup Materials can optionally be compressed, and quality may be maintained by utilizing either compressed or non-compressed *.PNG file format images during modeling; transparency can be adjusted by the user for each texture via:

Sketchup Menu > Window > Material > [Select tab] > "In Model" > [Edit tab] > "Opacity" slider and/or 'Spin Box' numeric control


When Materials used by a Sketchup model are stored along with 3D geometry inside a 1-piece 'package' ex: KMZ (3D Collada *.DAE) file format during export, they are utilized during import into ModelConverterX (aka "MCX").

Once mapped in MCX, conversion of the textures into Materials with desired attributes for use in MSFS can be done via ex: the MCX Material Editor.

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/wiki/index.php?title=ModelConverterX#Material_editor

NOTE: The above online Manual for MCX is for version 1.3; 'Development' versions of MCX may have a slightly different GUI and/or workflow.

http://www.scenerydesign.org/development-releases/


MCX can convert to the appropriate type of DXT file format based on whether the imported texture packaged inside the *.KMZ file (already) has an Alpha format, and/or when the end user selects "Set Default Transparent" or "Set Default Opaque" in the Material properties for a imported and (already) mapped texture.

Hi,

The convert wizard converts to dxt1 if your texture has no alpha channel. Else it will use dxt3 for fs2004 and dxt5 for fsx.

Dxt3 can also store alpha channel, dxt5 does it more accurate though, so therefore it is the preferred format for fsx.

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/exact-steps-for-ground-polygons.405433/#post-604681



PS: Regarding packaging textures along with a Collada *.DAE file:

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/12223364/including-texture-files-into-the-collada-file


To reduce texture size for use in Google Earth (or MSFS):

http://www.alexschreyer.net/cad/reducing-sketchup-file-sizes-for-google-earth/


NOTE: MCX can also convert mapped *.JPG textures to MSFS DXT BMP or DDS files (many thanks to Arno for his excellent work with MCX ! )


BTW: 'MSFS' = "Microsoft Flight Simulator"


Hope this helps !

GaryGB

 

[F747fly]

Hi again:

AFAIK, Sketchup uses "Materials" and the Sketchup default transparent glass Material apparently used above already has an Alpha channel ...used to achieve that transparency (...Arno, please correct me if I get any of this wrong!)


IIUC, texture images imported for use with Sketchup Materials can optionally be compressed, and quality may be maintained by utilizing either compressed or non-compressed *.PNG file format images during modeling; transparency can be adjusted by the user for each texture via:

Sketchup Menu > Window > Material > [Select tab] > "In Model" > [Edit tab] > "Opacity" slider and/or 'Spin Box' numeric control


When Materials used by a Sketchup model are stored along with 3D geometry inside a 1-piece 'package' ex: KMZ (3D Collada *.DAE) file format during export, they are utilized during import into ModelConverterX (aka "MCX").

Once mapped in MCX, conversion of the textures into Materials with desired attributes for use in MSFS can be done via ex: the Material Editor.

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/wiki/index.php?title=ModelConverterX#Material_editor

NOTE: The above online Manual for MCX is for version 1.3; MCX 'Development' versions of may have a slightly different GUI and/or workflow.

http://www.scenerydesign.org/development-releases/


MCX can convert to the appropriate type of DXT file format based on whether the imported texture packaged inside the *.KMZ file (already) has an Alpha format, and/or when the end user selects "Set Default Transparent" or "Set Default Opaque" in the Material properties for a imported and (already) mapped texture.



http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/exact-steps-for-ground-polygons.405433/#post-604681



PS: Regarding packaging textures along with a Collada *.DAE file:

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/12223364/including-texture-files-into-the-collada-file


To reduce texture size for use in Google Earth (or MSFS):

http://www.alexschreyer.net/cad/reducing-sketchup-file-sizes-for-google-earth/


NOTE: MCX can also convert mapped *.JPG textures to MSFS DXT BMP or DDS files (many thanks to Arno for his excellent work with MCX ! )


BTW: 'MSFS' = "Microsoft Flight Simulator"


Hope this helps !

GaryGB

Thanks for the heads-up! I think I will first test the model in a simplefied airfield in FSX (the main platform) anx then decide how to (if necessary) rework some textures. Though I think the 3d windows are not going to be removed because they give the model a more realistic feel.

 

[JRobinson]

I'd leave the model as is, I mean it's not like you're designing O'Hare where every poly and drawcall is detrimental, I don't think the extra polys are going to be an issue at a smallish airfield. The model is awesome! You'll probably pull your hair out solving draw order issues with the transparent glass material settings but it'll be very cool in the end.

I'd get it in the sim though, there will probably be some issues you'll need to sort out and it's possible you may need to re-map some polys to a different texture or something so that they can have unique material settings. Not sure how that all works out in Sketchup, I use gmax and on a recent model I did I had to apply a separate material to the wall containing the outside windows (same texture though), otherwise I had problems with the inside of the hangar being partially transparent against the background behind it when looking into the building through the windows.

Jim

 

[kevintampa5]

model is well done, dont change it unless you have to. my post was just a suggestion if you encounter issues, it would be where you start to work into it. I have some models with high detail as well, and i have no plans to reduce them since they are not conflicting with other models. performance impact of my scenery is minimal. only make changes to something that works if something is wrong. Small scenery area, high detail is not a problem. Large areas is where high detail may need a second look.

 

[F747fly]

model is well done, dont change it unless you have to. my post was just a suggestion if you encounter issues, it would be where you start to work into it. I have some models with high detail as well, and i have no plans to reduce them since they are not conflicting with other models. performance impact of my scenery is minimal. only make changes to something that works if something is wrong. Small scenery area, high detail is not a problem. Large areas is where high detail may need a second look.

Actually I'm currently not having problems with FSX, since I can't export the model. Seems that ModelConverterX get's a .systemoutofmemory error when converting the last two textures. I'm stuck from there on, anyone know how to work this out?

EDIT: or should I open a new topic for that?

 

[GaryGB]

IMHO, it might be a good idea to state which numeric version / build date of MCX is giving that error (...to help Arno formulate a reply).

Also, what Sketchup output file format (ex: *.KMZ, *.DAE, *.3DS etc.) did you export the project into prior to importing it into MCX ?

GaryGB